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EXTENDED EPISODE TRANSCRIPT: Lisa Rayne Samples Never Cross a Highlander

[00:00:00] Katherine Grant: Welcome to the Historical Romance Sampler Podcast. The place for you to find new historical romance books and authors to fan over. I'm award winning historical romance author Katherine Grant, and each week I'm inviting fellow authors to come on and share a little bit of their work and themselves.

[00:00:21] They'll read a sample of one of their books, and then I'm going to ask them a bunch of questions. By the end of the episode, you'll have a sense of what they write and who they are. Hopefully, you and I both will have something new to read. So what are we waiting for? Let's get into this week's episode.

[00:00:41] All right. We are here today with award winning author, Lisa Rayne, an Amazon bestselling author. Lisa loves how words turn into stories, whether in books, movies, or music. She writes sensual contemporary romance and banter laden historicals featuring smart, sexy characters of diverse backgrounds. She has won four Emma Awards and her first sports romance debuted on two Amazon bestseller lists.

[00:01:11] Always looking to try something new, Lisa branched into historical romance and put her sexy, banter laden spin on her Milestone 2022 release featuring a Black Highlander, Never Cross a Highlander. Welcome Lisa, I'm so excited to have you today.

[00:01:29] Lisa Rayne: Thank you. I'm glad to be here. Thanks for inviting me.

[00:01:32] Katherine Grant: Absolutely. So today you're reading an excerpt from your historical romance, Never Cross a Highlander. And just for readers who haven't heard of it yet, I'm going to read the blurb. And I did Google how to pronounce some of these names. I hope I get it right. Okay. Ailsa Connery has waited three long years to finally escape her enslavement at Sterling Castle and reunite with her clan.

[00:01:57] But all her carefully laid plans are completely destroyed by the arrival of the fierce Highland warrior known as Dove Mahone, the Black Devil, who has plans of his own. Kallum MacNeill's fearsome reputation has long allowed him to keep hidden his secret double life of freeing enslaved captives. across the land.

[00:02:19] Only it works against him, when he inadvertently kidnaps a servant lass he assumed had gone astray from the group he had come to free. When he discovers she has plans to head in the opposite direction, he can't leave her to travel alone, or risk her exposing his true identity. Escorting a lone woman should be easy, if only the beauty didn't oppose him at every turn.

[00:02:43] As they make their way to the highlands, One feisty hellion fighting the strong, prideful devil, their heated sparring leads to heat of a totally different kind. But the perils Kallum must face to get Ailsa home safely and untouched are nowhere as near as dangerous as what lies in wait for them. Such a great Scottish setup.

[00:03:06] Lisa, take it

[00:03:06] Lisa Rayne: away. All

[00:03:08] right. So the scene I'm going to read is when they're on their way back to the highlands and I'll set it up just a little bit because it's the start of chapter 14, but they've just had a run in with bad guys and basically three bad guys. And he took care of that, but he does have a wound.

[00:03:31] He's been cut. And she wants to look at it. And he's, of course, the big bad man. He's like, no, I'm fine. We have to get on the road. And they only have one horse. So he's put her on the horse, ignoring her. And she's a healer ignoring her attempts to get him to let her at least look at it, wrap it, do something so it doesn't get infected.

[00:03:56] And he refuses to help her down. And as he's getting up, she shoves him off so that he can't get up on the horse. Now he, he catches his balance and he doesn't fall, but in the process, he's a little upset. He still refuses to help her down. So she basically. Swings her leg over and starts to come off this really big horse.

[00:04:19] And of course he catches her and helps her. So now he's really annoyed because he feels like she's manipulated him. And this is where we pick up. And this is kind of what's been going on with them the entire time they've been on the road. But we get a little shift in this scene. So chapter 14. Ailsa looked away from the angry annoyance on the MacNeill's face.

[00:04:41] She'd gotten the upper hand in this matter, primarily because she knew his sense of honor would not allow him to let her fall when dismounting the horse. That sense of honor did not mean he was not upset with her. Mayhap it made him more so. She sensed he hated that she had figured out how to use his personal code against him.

[00:05:02] All truth, she was surprised by how much she enjoyed vexing him. Something about this man brought out the contrariness in her. The tension between them as he tried to control her and she fought not to be controlled evoked some of the headiest emotions she had ever felt. Not that she had never faced off against a dominant male, but something about Kallum MacNeill was different.

[00:05:25] Something about the way she felt around him was different. She spread the cut in his tunic wide enough to glance inside at the wound. The slash across his skin was long, but did not appear deep from this angle. To be sure, she needed a closer look. Remove your tunic for me. She glanced up into his eyes and the intensity that met hers sent an unfamiliar frolic of emotions through her.

[00:05:51] He hide her without movement, but was not merely obstinance that held him immobile. Her request, though innocent, suggested other possibilities. Ignoring the charged moment, Ailsa directed him to focus on the task at hand. I need a closer look, MacNeill. The wound looks not deep enough to need stitching, but to be certain, I must view it without your garment in place.

[00:06:16] The MacNeill understood her request for what it was. His piercing sable eyes, nonetheless, displayed an awareness of the more forward implications of her request. After the briefest hesitation, his voice rasped with an edge more aught other than annoyance. We do not have time for this. Her healer's mien of authority took over and her hands went to her hips.

[00:06:41] Then stop wasting daylight and do what I ask. His eyes tracked the placement of her hands and something flickered in their dark depths before he pulled off his tunic with a barely visible grimace she was meant not to see. She decided not to mention the grimace and ignore what looked suspiciously like amusement at her expense.

[00:07:00] Instead, she touched her hand lightly to his side. His abdomen flinched inward at her touch. But he made no sound. I does not deep, but I would clean and wrap it before we ride on. She glanced at his face again. All irritation had left his gaze and been replaced by something more visceral. He glanced at her hand, which still rested on his side and swallowed noticeably.

[00:07:28] A new tension arose, something that had very little to do with vexation. And there it was again, that shiver of emotion that left her unbalanced and vulnerably raw in a manner she'd never experienced in all her seasons of life. Through all the conflict and verbal sparring and hostility that pinged between them, simmered a temptation, a heated draw that made everything female in her want to surface and be bold.

[00:07:57] Her gaze remained imprisoned by his, and without conscious thought, her fingers traced down the path of grooves, outlining his defined abdomen. The feel was totally different from the bony angles and soft middle of the runt who had groped her earlier. The plains of Kallum's skin were ridged with several raised scars, a testament to his many battles.

[00:08:17] T'was enticing to be this close to such strength, strength she had counted on with Unfailing confidence to untangle her assailant from her before he did more than grope at her breast. She had survived such groping before on more than one occasion. It was nothing she had not prepared herself to endure whilst living as a captive and was nothing she could not handle.

[00:08:40] Though the callous treatment never ceased to anger her. When her hand reached the trio of muscles that made a horizontal line beneath the MacNeill's navel, she looked down to watch her hand as it slid across the ridge path and paused to trace a pucker that suggested he'd been stabbed in the stomach sometime past.

[00:08:58] His abdomen went concave as he hissed in a breath and caught her hand. Ann. Her eyes flicked to his. He had called her that earlier. It had hit her odd to hear him call her by her name for the first time and use the wrong one. The mistake made sense to her, for that was what he had heard her called by the King.

[00:09:19] It had never occurred to her that he knew not her real name. Tis not my name. Her voice near purred with a breathiness. She'd never heard from herself. His hand tightened minutely around her as the seductive tone of her revelation. And then his head tilted in confusion. Tis what they decided to call me after my capture.

[00:09:43] My given name, my true name, is Ailsa. He reached up with his other hand and pushed his fingers into the base of her loose braid, messy plaited after all she had been through in the past days. Aye makes sense. Her eyes questioned his meaning. Ann did not suit you. With a gentle tug, he pulled her closer. Ailsa, tis a strong name.

[00:10:09] One more fitting a brave highland lass such as yourself. Warmth spread through her, and she stared at him in amazement. He thought her brave. The longing, the reverence in his eyes made her feel desired and significant in a way she'd never known. They stood so close, the heat of his skin seeped

[00:10:28] through her, and his intent to kiss her showed clearly on his face. Oh, how she wanted his kiss. He thought her brave. She near trembled at the thrill that a warrior such as he thought her worthy of his admiration, not just his lust. This morn had come with challenges she could ill imagine facing or surviving on this track without the MacNeill at her side.

[00:10:53] The urge to lean into his strength and allow him to replace Every bad kiss she'd ever received with one that would make her feel like a woman and not like a possession near overwhelmed her were not proper. These feelings, nor was this the right timing or place for them to give into this pool? She had felt between them from the moment she laid eyes on him.

[00:11:13] They needed to be mindful of their surroundings and leave this place as soon as possible. So when his head eased lower, she broke eye contact and looked down to avoid a meeting of lips she was unsure she could survive unscathed. Her forehead landed temporarily against his bare chest and her breath stuttered uneasily from her lungs.

[00:11:37] Kallum's hand disengaged from the hair at her nape, brushed lightly over her head, then dropped gently to her back. He drew small circles against the fabric of her dress in a reassuring caress and waited in silence while she gathered herself. Her hand quivered against his warm, scar adorned skin in a breath, or ten.

[00:11:56] Then she fisted her hand at her side and pulled away, happy that her head had blocked his view of the prior trembling of her fingers. I need to attend your wound, she finally said. Aye, no censure or annoyance entered his tone. Surprised, she looked up. She had expected him to be upset with her avoidance of his advance.

[00:12:18] She had been the one, this time, to slip them over the edge of propriety. His lips forged a wry tilt at one side, but his eyes stayed fervent and consuming. You may want to keep your hands from wandering past the area of the wound then, he said. His deep voice laced with dark innuendo. She dipped her head, fighting back a blush she could feel rising.

[00:12:41] I'll need to clean the wound, then wrap it. It will not take long. She grabbed his water skin from the horse, cleaned the wound, then ripped a few strips from the torn dress she changed out of to wrap around his midsection. Once that was done, he replaced his sliced tunic, put her back on the mare, and mounted behind her.

[00:12:59] They rode without speaking. Their almost kiss left a quiet tension between them that lent nervous anticipation to Ailsa's journey. He wanted to kiss her. He would kiss her one day. T'was not a matter of if, more like a matter of when. And the more she thought about that impending kiss, the more she struggled between the lure of a maiden's burgeoning desires and the urge to run and hide, she unknowingly awakened a sultry beast.

[00:13:28] And she knew not how to handle such an animal. Hold her own in a battle of wits? Aye. Fell a rabbit with a shot from a bow, aye, well, once she was back in practice, but illicit encounters between a man and a woman, she had no skill at that. She had no experience with consensual carnality between a male and a female, and propriety mandated that, as an unmarried lass, she should not think on such unseemly affairs.

[00:13:55] Marriage factored not into her plans. Accordingly, the social rules that applied to her intended station in life dictated she stay a chaste, single woman, or enter an abbey or some such. She certainly had no intention of entering an abbey. She had hard enough time embracing the teachings of a church that ignored, even justified, the enslavement of an entire people.

[00:14:17] No need to be such a hypocrite. Did that mean she would never know the passion between a man and a woman? Many females decry the act as painful and not worth the trouble. Those who believed in love matches oft told a different tale. She knew not which ones to believe. And if she indulged, whether the experience be pleasing or horrid, would that make her naught but a whore?

[00:14:43] Her mother had told her much about what went where and why when a man sought his pleasure, but she never mentioned repeated pain or unappealing couplings. Ailsa got the sense that her mother's memories of times with Ailsa's sire were anything but unpleasant. In fact, those very memorable liaisons caused many to label her mother a whore.

[00:15:03] It was not what Ailsa had thought or believed of her mother. It was not a designation her mother had accepted or allowed to shame her or make her cower from public life. If Ailsa were to live her life on her own terms, as her mother had, she must be prepared to leave off the opinions of others might have of her.

[00:15:22] In which case, if she were to consider testing the boundaries of mating, Twas mayhap best to engage in such matters of the flesh with a man she did not find amiable. A man, like the MacNeill, so that amorous emotions were not at risk. Liar. Her brain called foul on her classification of her feelings for the MacNeills as uncongenial, but she shut it down.

[00:15:46] Whatever feelings of amnesty she thought she lacked for the warrior, she could not deny he was easily the most virile man she'd ever met. Tall, broad, strong, and foul tempered, she thought. She glanced over her shoulder to check his expression. He stared back at her. That sliced brow peaked in curiosity. Lips tilted at one edge, an arrogant tease.

[00:16:11] Except when he wasn't. And when he wasn't, he was devastating to her senses. That lazy smirks and a tingle through her, and that feel of his muscled arms surrounding her as they rode, made her feel not only safe, but heated from her center down through the tips of her toes. She was not so simple as to believe that the act of loving equated to the emotion love.

[00:16:34] She need not succumb to the latter to indulge in the first. The question was whether she wanted to indulge in the first, and if she did. Was the MacNeill the man with whom she dared indulge? The dilemma perplexed her through most of their ride, for the day until she finally dozed off in his arms. Kallum nudged Ailsa to wake her a bit later.

[00:16:59] She snuggled deep into his arms, not wanting to be roused. She made a contented sound and rubbed the side of her face against his beard. He went immobile at the nuzzle, shock and desire coursing through him. While he held himself taunt, she did it again, bunting against him like a contented feline. Visions flooded him of what it might be like to have her nuzzle against him this way, when they were both fully nude and stretched out on a bed, skin to skin.

[00:17:27] His hold on her tightened. Was his tightening embrace that finally made her eyes flutter open. She looked up at him. Her cheeks still rested against him in such a way that her skin brushed the edge of his chin. When her head moved, she hummed lightly. Seemingly enjoying the feel of his facial hair against her soft skin, her lips lifted, and then she was the one to go immobile.

[00:17:51] The reality of what she had done flitted across her face along with the wash of embarrassment. The embarrassment did not last. The look in her eyes shifted and a pulsing curiosity took its place. He'd seen the same curiosity in her expression when she traced the scars on his stomach this morn.

[00:18:08] Daringly, she lifted her hand and rubbed her palm against the opposite side of his face. He did not move, waiting to see what she would do next. Her hand traced his beard to the base of his ear and slowly came back the other way to feel the hair along his chin and upward lip. Her fingers brushed his lips in the process, and for a brief instant she left her fingers against his closed mouth with a pinch of expression on her face.

[00:18:35] He suppressed the craving to touch his tongue to her fingertips, not wanting to startle her so much that she'd stop her tactile exploration. Finally, she dropped her hand to the edge of his mouth and pressed his face close to hers while she rubbed her cheek deliberately and with quiet relish against the other side of his beard.

[00:18:55] When she dropped her hand, she looked directly into his eyes unrepentantly. Why? He cleared his throat to alleviate the noticeable strain in his voice, but the gruffness lingered. Why did you do that? She held his gaze and admitted, I was curious. A blush lit her skin before she added, I've been wondering what that would feel like, and I wasn't sure I'd get another chance to find out.

[00:19:24] Katherine Grant: Ooh, so much tension there. We'd all better rush out and get our copies of the book so we can find out how this resolves itself.

[00:19:34] Lisa Rayne: Yes, how does this resolve itself? Well

[00:19:38] I have a lot of questions for you, but first we're going to take a quick break for our sponsors.

[00:19:41] Annie R McEwen: [musical interlude].

[00:20:11]

[00:20:32] Katherine Grant: Hey samplers! It's Katherine Grant. I am interrupting this episode to tell you how to get a free book, the Viscount Without Virtue. First, go to bit.ly/hrs fan, go through the checkout process. This is where you add the promo code, HR SFAN as your last step. Just download your free ebook to your ereader.

[00:21:10] Alright, well let's get back to this week's episode.

[00:21:12] So we are back with award winning author, Lisa Rayne, who just read a fantastic excerpt from Never Cross a Highlander. And one of the things that struck me about this scene that you were reading is if I were to summarize it, it's actually very simple.

[00:21:28] She heals his, or she doesn't heal his wound, but she treats his wound, and then they're riding on a horse. But you made it so complex and nuanced, and where you were exploring every single layer of communication between them, and what was going on in their head, and what was actually happening on the page.

[00:21:44] I'm very curious, as a writer, how do you approach that? Like, did you know it was gonna be this huge scene, and How did you enter the scene?

[00:21:55] Lisa Rayne: I don't know if I knew it was going to be a huge scene, but there's a little bit of enemies to lovers in this, because as we say, he inadvertently kidnaps her, and people are like, how do you inadvertently kidnap her?

[00:22:07] Right, because she's got a plan to escape on her own. He thinks she's part of a group he's trying to free, and those mixed signals mean she gets He pretty much drags her along with him. So she's not real happy because this is not where she wants to be. And he's the leader of his clan army. He's a You know, alpha male, he's used to being obeyed without question and she questions him all the time.

[00:22:34] So there's all this frustration and tension and they never can agree, but they're also physically attracted to each other. And under this tension, it is noticeable to each of them right away that there's a physical appeal of the other person, although they're thinking, but I don't like them very much. So how do you deal with something when you're physically attracted to someone, but you don't like them as a person?

[00:23:02] You don't like their personality. You don't like how they treat you. You don't like any of that, but you can't deny the underlying. Attraction. And they've just experienced something real intense right before this. So think speed, you know, or they say, you know, I've heard that romances that start under intense circumstances don't last.

[00:23:20] Right. You know, it's one of those scenes and this is going to be the first time. Where it's clear to each of them that they want to kiss and we all know that first kiss is really significant and important and what it does, but they have the added light layer of these social norms that she's a single woman alone with a man, which she shouldn't be in the first place and heaven forbid, she give into something that's physically desirous Because good women, good girls, right?

[00:23:57] Don't do that. But she's raised by a single mom. She's illegitimate. She's raised by a single mom. She's dealt with the social norms, talking to her mom about, is her mom a whore or what's going on? What are this? But she's decided to live on her own terms anyway. And she's got to come to grip with what that means.

[00:24:16] Because now she's alone with this hot, sexy man who just saved her life. And she's physically attracted to him. Yeah. A lot of tension there. And so I knew that was important to convey.

[00:24:30] Katherine Grant: Yeah. I think something else you did really well was communicate a lot of dualities. Like you said, it's enemies to lovers.

[00:24:37] There was also the duality of her attraction versus the social mores versus her own sex positivity, which isn't a term that she has, but that's what I'm applying. Right. And also there was a line in there about everything female in her coming out and. I didn't write down a line, but I think I picked up as well that like with Kallum, there was a little bit of like his essential masculinity versus the larger part of his character.

[00:25:05] I once heard a quote that romance is all about power dynamics, and I think that was playing out very explicitly in this scene. Do you think about power dynamics as you are writing a scene or maybe even writing out a whole story?

[00:25:20] Lisa Rayne: Definitely at a scene level. There's an initial power dynamic that I have to know going in. What, what's the power dynamic? You know, what is this relationship going to be right? That's the foundation because there's some growth we hope for each character over the course. And a lot of that becomes a shift in that power dynamic, a shift or some nuanced changes.

[00:25:45] So you have to know that. But then at a scene level, you have to decide what in this scene either relies on the power dynamic. will shift the power dynamic or will cause conflict as a result of the power dynamic. There's all that going in. And this is what I call, I call this an action adventure romance because for me, you know, he's a guy with the sword.

[00:26:16] So the book as like Dirty Harry in a Kilt meets Mr. and Mrs. Smith because, you know, she's no wilting flower, headstrong, been independent, wants to stay independent. But within that, like, I've always thought, like, why give a Highlander a big sword and then he never have a battle? So we've got some battle scenes, we've got some escapes, we've got, you know, some drama.

[00:26:41] But within that, we still have to figure out how do these two people who are at odds fall in love with each other and I need people to see so when we get to that point where they know they're in love with each other, the reader believes it, right? Like you see the shift in power, you see the compromise, you see whatever.

[00:27:02] But now you go, now I know how she went from thinking he was an annoying overbearing cad to being in love with this guy.

[00:27:12] Katherine Grant: Yeah, that makes a lot of sense. I like how you break that down. And so this is the first Highlander that you've written. You've decided to give the guy a sword. I know you've also written Old West lawyers and sports.

[00:27:25] So how do you decide what? Each story is going to be what era it's going to be. How do you pick?

[00:27:33] Lisa Rayne: You know, I am in a really odd spot right now because I honestly never thought I'd write historical romance. I started out writing contemporary. I love contemporary, but I am an avid historical reader, my first romance ever was historical.

[00:27:50] I read nothing but historical through high school pretty much through college until, you know, studies got so intense. I couldn't read. So I didn't discover contemporary romance, probably till the end of my college career, but when I started writing, I thought, Well, I want this to be a little fun, like, because romance is my escape as a practicing attorney, you know, romance was my escape with a few times I could read.

[00:28:20] And I thought, I would write Romantic Suspense because Nora Roberts is one of my favorites. I love Romantic Suspense and hers are my favorite, but I started writing and realized, oh, if I'm going to finish this story, my first manuscript I try, I'm going to do a lot of research, even for contemporary.

[00:28:40] Right. Romantic suspense. I don't do that much for a sense. Like, let me start with something I know. So my first finished manuscript was Counselor Undone, which is about two lawyers. They happen to be IP lawyers and intellectual property lawyers, which is what I was. It's set in Kansas City, which is my hometown.

[00:28:57] And I'm like, this is, I'll have to research this. I know this stuff. Right. Foolish me. Contemporary romance is probably almost harder because you have to have something more than just them falling in love, or it's really boring, right? But I wrote it, and I liked it, and it was fun. I thought, I'll just keep doing this, and I'll read historical.

[00:29:17] As a shift, and there was a publisher that I met at a conference who was looking for people to write a series of books actually about cowboys and gunslingers. So I was actually contracted to write the Western, old Western first. And I thought, well, You know, I'm a social studies teacher. I teach African American studies.

[00:29:40] I know that time period. I can do this and it shouldn't be too much research. Yeah. Yeah. Right. So I started that, but then she had the opportunity for a mass market paperback because a book had shifted and they had an open spot. And she called me and said, Hey, you want the paperback spot? Well, no writer in their right mind is going to say no to that.

[00:29:59] And I'd be like, well, yeah, sure. But after we discussed it, she wasn't sure about putting the Western there because things were shaking up in the industry. And, you know, she was doing something a little different and Westerns weren't necessarily selling well. So she was like, you don't have to put the Western there.

[00:30:17] We could pick something else. And like, without hesitation. And I was like. You know, I'd really love to write a black Highlander and in part, cause I love Highlander books, Julie Garwood, right? Maya Banks. Give me a good Highlander. I didn't even have a story. I'm going to tell you right. I had no story. All I knew was she said, you could write whatever you want, but they wanted a historical.

[00:30:46] And all I thought was. Black Highlander. I have to write a Black Highlander and the social studies teacher in me knew about the diaspora. So I knew, I actually knew about Scotland's connection to slavery back in the 1500s, 1600s. So, but I didn't understand all. So I did have to go do a lot of research, unfortunately.

[00:31:06] But this was such a labor of love for me because I love Highlander books. And having never read a Highlander book with somebody who looked like me, the opportunity. Yeah. To do this was just, it just was something I couldn't pass up. So now I'm having fun, right, writing historicals. But I got people, weren't you going to write a second book in that, like, lawyer series?

[00:31:29] And I put, well, yeah. So I am in a odd spot in that. Most people drill down in one era, right, even if they're historical, they're, they're, all their historical is at least for the first 5, 6, 7, right, are on the same decade. And it's like, and I've got American 1800s. And Scotland, 1600s and the United States contemporary.

[00:31:58] And I just pitched a Regency. I'm not sure I'm picking any eras. I think they're picking me and I'm kind of along for the ride. So I'm hoping that there are a whole lot of readers out there like me who don't mind that somebody writes and walks like, they're going to read a Highlander, they're going to read a cowboy.

[00:32:17] Katherine Grant: Well, I think readers do tend to read across. Maybe there's a divide between historical and contemporary, but I think historical readers read across the different historicals and the contemporary read across different contemporary setting.

[00:32:30] So, I'm curious, you have all these stories coming to you from different eras that are, you know, the muses coming to you, opportunities are coming to you. When you sit down to come up with the story, for example, you said, I want to write a Black Highlander.

[00:32:44] What normally comes first for you? The tropes, themes, dialogue, specific scenes?

[00:32:51] Lisa Rayne: Okay, I'm gonna tell you a secret. I do not write my tropes in advance. I am not a trope writer. I am a story or scene writer. I also don't write in order. Which drives some authors crazy, but I don't write in order because I see scenes.

[00:33:11] So when I finally get a story concept, I usually know when it, when I'm ready to write, what I have is the beginning, the middle, and the end. And I got to figure out how to get from the beginning to the middle. And then once I get to the middle, I got to figure out how to get from the middle to the end.

[00:33:30] Once I have those pillars, then I do kind of write in scene. So this is a scene because this is a scene I need for the first kiss. This is the scene I need for him to savor. This is the scene I need, right? And often I'll wake up in the morning and go, Oh my God, I gotta write that now because they're going to do this.

[00:33:49] And so I sometimes wake up in the morning with the scene that's like near the end of the book and I'm still at the beginning. I will actually write that scene. I will write that scene and then stick the words near the bottom of the manuscript. So it's sitting there when it's time to get there. And I do that repeatedly.

[00:34:07] And then I sort of tie everything together. And I generally don't think. And I think it's because I was a romance reader for so long before the discussion of tropes became the normal thing, the norm, right? I started reading romance in the eighties, in the early eighties. So we weren't talking about tropes.

[00:34:29] We were just like, God, did you read that book? And look, it had a little sexy stuff in it. You know I was in from high school. So, but so what I usually do is I can usually come up with one or two to give my editor so that they want to publish the book. So in this one, I think what I told them was enemies to lovers, because I knew she's going to be mad because I knew he was going to sort of kidnap her.

[00:34:55] And journey romance, because I knew that once that happened, they would go on this road trip to get back to the highlands. That's all I had. But if you go to my Instagram, I don't think it's pinned anymore, but there's a There's an image that has all these tropes and it's like only one horse grumpy hero bodyguard protector.

[00:35:18] Those came from my readers. Like I would be online and I'd see someone's TikTok review or something and they'd be like, Oh, and they've got grumpy hero. And I'm like, Oh, I do. Okay. And I would like take notes. So now I like, and someone's like, this is so tropey. How did you make it come without like looking like you were writing tropes?

[00:35:38] It's like, cause I did write the tropes. I let my reader figure out like, even I didn't get the only one horse thing. Yeah. And some person was talking about the fact that they only had one horse and there's that scene where they're, you know, and I'm like, Oh, that's a truck. Okay. Let me write it.

[00:35:57] Katherine Grant: I relate to that a lot because I also don't, when I try to write to tropes, it never goes the way I want it to.

[00:36:03] And then when I'm trying to like summarize the book or market it, I'm like, okay, what tropes are in here? And I'll just like be sitting there being like, I have no idea. And then someone reads it and they're like, oh, it's this trope. And I'm like, Oh, that's a trope. Okay, great. I'll take it.

[00:36:19] Lisa Rayne: I could pitch it a one or two, and those are the ones I think about to sort of center the story, but when I'm writing the story. I'm not really thinking about that. But if I'm developing the characters true to personality or whatever, I should be able to do it well without it looking like, Oh my God, she just threw in only one horse or Oh my God, she had to throw in Grumpy Hero.

[00:36:47] There are writers who do that and do it well, and there are times where I wish I could, like, I wish I could, like, pick that trope that's hot and just go right, right to it and do it well and sell lots of books, but I haven't mastered that yet, so.

[00:37:01] Katherine Grant: Yeah, well there's room for improvement for everyone, right?

[00:37:04] Did you learn anything after having written contemporaries and then switching to writing historicals? Did you learn anything? about your craft or about writing that was new to you? Or did you learn anything interesting historically that you want to share?

[00:37:22] Lisa Rayne: Well, both actually what I learned craft wise is I kind of fooled myself that I did no research for my contemporary because there are things that happen that you have to go verify that the facts are right.

[00:37:35] So like, for instance, my, my quarterback Casanova, which is a football book. I love football. And I know football well, and I actually have football scenes in there. But there were a few times in writing that, where I had to go verify, like, okay, is that really a penalty? And how many yards is that, right?

[00:37:55] And so, Because it's contemporary, I think we take it for granted and then in the historical, maybe more research because even though I understood the historical time, who was king, what were the major historical placements, things like what, what did they wear? I wanted to throw in a few words that were in Gaelic or Gaelic.

[00:38:18] I always forget which one is Scotland and which one is Ireland, so and so I consulted someone who actually spoke the language, who gave me some words and then I'm like, am I using this right? Cause like having someone who studied language know that sometimes you can't just take a word and put it in a phrase that I, so if there are mistakes, those are mine, not the person I consulted. And so there was a more in depth, and I think we worry as historical writers, of getting something basic wrong. Like there's room for Stretching history a little bit to make the story better, but basic things like calling something by the wrong word, like, you know, I'm calling something by something that was invented 100 years later, right?

[00:39:05] Like, right. Yeah. So I had to learn to balance. Taking the right amount of time to research it well enough to tell the story and going down a rabbit hole and staying lost for two weeks and not getting the next section of the book. Right, because once you start researching what underwear do they wear,

[00:39:23] Katherine Grant: Yes!

[00:39:25] You can really go places.

[00:39:27] Lisa Rayne: Yeah, it was, oh my god, it was so, and it was a learning curve because then I'd get with my, my writer or my critique writer and they'd be like, you ain't finished that scene yet! You were working on that two weeks ago, you know, and then I'm going, well, cause I was looking up and like, Lisa, stop it.

[00:39:43] Go write the book. Right. So that was, that was the learning curve for me. History, what, what really came up for me that was interesting was the connection pirates had to

[00:40:00] adding enslaved Africans to the Scottish mainland, because I put a little bit of this history, but the book is not really about slavery. It's just that during this time period, slavery was still valid. And Scotland, like a lot of European countries, had Caribbean plantations and Caribbean places where they, they raised staples.

[00:40:24] Sometimes. Those enslaved peoples were brought to the mainland, but a lot of times they were in the Caribbean, but learning that there were pirates who would basically capture enslaved enslaved slavers, which are just pirates slave ships. And they would take not just the money and the loot and the whatever.

[00:40:46] They would actually take the Africans and sell them too. So there was this tendency in that period for wealthy British or Scottish people to purchase Africans as servants. Because it made them look prosperous. So it's sort of like the thing to do to show your wealth and your standing. And I was like, pirates?

[00:41:09] Like, who doesn't love a good pirate, right? I'm like, wow. And so, in the back of my head, I'm writing this pirate book on, right, with this pirate book. But we'll tie it to the Highlanders so I don't have to go to a different, like, time period. But, that fascinated me. And I, I really Learning that was like one of those aha moments for me because I didn't know about the, I knew about the plantations.

[00:41:35] I knew about all this other stuff. I didn't know about the pirates.

[00:41:38] Katherine Grant: Yeah, I've had a similar thing where like I was researching something and I came across pirates and I was like, wait a second, Pirates of the Caribbean. I know that movie and all of that lore, and then all this research I've been doing on, The Caribbean and Europe and all that.

[00:41:55] And then what I know about American history and it was all converging and it's like, Oh my gosh, there's a lot that can be done there. I think I think pirates are going to be the thing of the next decade because I think a lot of us are all of a sudden like, wait, explore this,

[00:42:10] Lisa Rayne: you know, they were sort of this taboo or this like exciting bad people.

[00:42:14] But I think that pirates had a lot more to do with the intersections of society than any of us really thought about. And so. Yeah, I got some, I got some ideas about pirates. Yeah.

[00:42:29] Katherine Grant: Awesome. Well, I'm going to move us on to our fun segment.

[00:42:33] Are you a romantic?

[00:42:38] Which do you trust more?

[00:42:39] Your heart, your gut, or your brain? My gut. Do you believe in love at first sight? Absolutely. Is there a difference between lust and love?

[00:42:52] Lisa Rayne: Yes. Which is why you see the characters in that book debating, is it lust or something else?

[00:42:58] Katherine Grant: Do you believe in soulmates?

[00:43:03] Lisa Rayne: Sort of. I believe in soulmates, but I don't believe that there's only that one soulmate.

[00:43:10] I think that there is a soulmate, the right type of person for you, but that you have the opportunity to find more than one.

[00:43:19] Katherine Grant: Well said. Do you believe in true love and is it different from soulmates?

[00:43:25] Lisa Rayne: I do believe in true love. That's an interesting question. I actually think it is a little different because I think there's a level of soulmates that has a different level of love that doesn't necessarily have to be the romantic

[00:43:47] love. And you know how like the Greeks have multiple words for love, depending on the level. And I think you could have a soulmate that you love in a way that's this deep, unrelenting friendship that makes you there for that person no matter what, much like a romantic couple is without there being that romantic element to it.

[00:44:11] It's a different kind of love. Yeah. So I think soulmates and true love are different. But that sometimes you can find both in the same person.

[00:44:22] Katherine Grant: That's what makes a good romance novel.

[00:44:26] Lisa Rayne: Exactly, yes. Good, good point.

[00:44:29] Katherine Grant: What makes an apology meaningful?

[00:44:32] Lisa Rayne: a sincere regret coupled with the desire to not do the thing again. You know, an apology that is given because you've hurt someone and you feel bad about that, but doesn't result in a change in behavior to me is not a true, it's not a true apology. It's a don't be mad at me.

[00:44:54] Katherine Grant: All right, and final question.

[00:44:55] Why is romantic love important?

[00:44:58] Lisa Rayne: Because it keeps the human race going. If without romantic love, we'd have a lot fewer people on the planet. Because I truly believe that procreation, there's an aspect of it for Probably at least half of the world that comes from that love, that there are lots of people who would never have kids, but for the fact that they fall in love and think, I want a combination of me and you.

[00:45:29] Right? Yeah. Right. And so I think it helps keep. It's the population growing and society turning.

[00:45:39] Katherine Grant: All right. Well, Lisa, I think I'm going to declare you a romantic with a capital R. You are in it for the long haul.

[00:45:48] Lisa Rayne: Yes.

[00:45:51] Katherine Grant: So thank you so much for joining me. Before we go, how can readers keep in touch with you and find your books?

[00:45:58] Lisa Rayne: The best way is my website. I'm at lisarayne. com. So basically just my name, all one word. When you go to the homepage, there's a place to sign up for my newsletter. You can also just go to lisarayne.com/subscribe if you want to forego all the other stuff. I am on social media, primarily Instagram and Facebook.

[00:46:18] I'm not a big poster right now because I'm in the middle of some projects, but if they go to my website and join my newsletter. That's the best way because then I let my newsletter people know what's going on first. So that's, that's the place to be

[00:46:33] Katherine Grant: awesome. I will put a link in the show notes so everyone can go to your website, sign up for your newsletter and here be the first people to hear when the sequel to never cross a Highlander is announced.

[00:46:44] Well, thank you so much, Lisa. And I hope we talk again soon.

[00:46:49] Lisa Rayne: Thank you. I had a great time. Thanks so much. Bye bye.

[00:46:52] Katherine Grant: That's it for this week. Check out the show notes where I put links for my guests, myself, and the podcast. Until next week, happy reading.