Episode 24 - Heba Helmy Samples The Earl's Egyptian Heiress
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FULL TRANSCRIPT: Heba Helmy Samples The Earl's Egyptian Heiress
Katherine Grant: [00:00:00] Welcome to the Historical Romance Sampler Podcast. The place for you to find new historical romance books and authors to fan over. I'm award winning historical romance author Katherine Grant, and each week I'm inviting fellow authors to come on and share a little bit of their work and themselves.
They'll read a sample of one of their books, and then I'm going to ask them a bunch of questions. By the end of the episode, you'll have a sense of what they write and who they are. Hopefully, you and I both will have something new to read. So what are we waiting for? Let's get into this week's episode.
I'm here today with Heba Helmy. Egyptian born and Canadian raised, Heba holds an MA in English Literature and a PhD in Language and Literacies. A former high school teacher and current university professor, her academic practice focuses on culturally sustaining [00:01:00] narratives, and her creative one is all about storytelling that centers love.
Heba, I'm so excited to have you here.
Heba Helmy: I'm excited to be here.
Katherine Grant: What are you reading for us today?
Heba Helmy: So I'm reading a little bit from The Earl's Egyptian Heiress, which debuted Last year, actually and it was my debut. So I thought I'd read from it today.
Katherine Grant: Yay, I'm excited.
Heba Helmy: Thank you.
Katherine Grant: Is there anything we need to know about the scene?
Heba Helmy: So this scene happens around so Ranya, who's the Egyptian female main character, POV. She's gone to England to find some things out with the Earl of Warrington and, you know, she's left Egypt and she lands in England and this is a dinner party. She's thrown into a dinner party. So this is the dinner party scene.
And this is her reaction to [00:02:00] this scene and Owen is the the main POV, and he has, she knows him as half Egyptian, half British, and so seeing, so she's seen him in Egypt, she knows what he's like in Egypt, but here he's the Earl of Warrington, and he's very much in his in his, you know, Earl ness, so to speak, and so this is the dinner party scene.
Katherine Grant: Awesome, take it away.
Heba Helmy: Thank you. Ranya gritted her teeth through the conversation that followed around British relations with India. Did these people truly believe they were better than everyone else in the world? Maybe they thought they were doing good buying spices from India or cotton from Egypt
while offering language and education in places like Mr. March's school or through their missionary work. Yet, for all their airs, they did not realize how much they depended on the labor of those they termed barbaric, or that their assumptions about [00:03:00] people who were not like them might be completely wrong.
Ranya wished she could call them out on their prejudice, but being a guest at their supper party stilled her tongue. Until the main course came in, a roasted pig. The skin was crispy and there was an apple in its mouth. How would people ever eat it looking like that? She clapped both hands over her mouth to stop herself being sick, then pushed her chair back, knocking cutlery to the ground.
It was like the first day on the yacht with Owen before Ranya had gotten her sea legs, except they weren't alone so he could hold her hand, stand at her back as an anchor, solid, Warm. "Apologies. Pig is forbidden in my faith," she managed to mumble after she'd calmed a bit. "I am not accustomed to seeing it like this."
Lady Elizabeth sneered. "I had forgotten Mohammedans do not consume pork and yet they don't have a problem with camel meat." [00:04:00] The other woman's prejudice was too much for Ranya. She stood abruptly, backing away from the pig, refusing to look at it again. The men stood too, out of decorum. But it was Owen who rounded the table.
"I'm sorry, I should have seen to the menu myself." he stared pointedly at the Countess. " Excuse my ignorance. Miss Radwan, she offered. "Pardon it this time and it shall not happen again for the duration of your stay." "Please," Owen addressed one of the servants, "pass a message along to the kitchens not to serve any pork, only lamb, chicken, or duck."
"Yes, my lord." "Also, please remove the platter to a side table and slice the pork there. You may serve it to our guests banquet fashion, as in luncheon." The countess made an objecting sound but said nothing as the servant complied. And in the bustle of the changes being made to the table, Owen led Ranya to a quiet corner of the dining room.
"I'm sorry, all this, a supper party, the customs. It would be overwhelming even if the [00:05:00] guests weren't so rude and ignorant." His kindness made her tearful, and she had to bite her lip to stop the flood of emotion. She wished she could tell him that she had no problem with him, that in fact she wished they were alone, even though she shouldn't.
Behind his back, Ranya caught a glimpse of Miss Charlotte, frowning. Fretful. Then the dining room stilled, conversations ceased, and all stood over their filled plates, whether they were waiting for the head of the table to return or trying to overhear what he was saying to her, she could not be sure. When the countess called his name and Owen ignored her, his attention still completely on Ranya, she'd have been lying if she tried to deny how powerful she felt, how much it boosted her.
"They're waiting for you," she said softly. "Maybe I should excuse myself." "It's important to me that you feel welcome here. But if you would like to go, you may, certainly. Molly will bring you a tray." She met his gaze. "But you would rather I [00:06:00] stayed?" "Most ardently." He nodded and bit down lightly on his lower lip.
Ranya didn't know what daring possessed her when she saw that. "Sit me next to you then." he nodded before turning and then moved to place a hand on Sir Henry's shoulder. "Would you mind exchanging your place with Miss Radwan? I think it prudent to have her near me." She would have liked him to move Miss Charlotte instead, but it was fine.
It was still a victory, being next to him and having him refuse to eat any of the main dish with her, pushing away the wine when he realized that it was something she wasn't drinking. Having the Earl of Warrington pay her such exquisite attention made Ranya feel as if she were flying, as if she couldn't be hurt or shamed by anyone else at that table.
But that didn't mean that there weren't moments when she felt as if her wings had been clipped and she was falling, quickly, spinning. Giddy. When his knee scraped against hers under the tablecloth, or [00:07:00] the tip of his shoe nudged the tip of hers, the intimacy and the benign act of bringing his fork close to her plate to recommend or comment on the food.
"Try the Brussels sprouts dipped in the mustard dressing," or "doesn't the Blanc Mange remind you of Mahalabeya pudding, but with vanilla instead of blossom powder?" with the contortions of the candlelight, it was like seeing him anew this version of Askander that was Owen in front of others. It made her pound her heart pound with the danger of it, and even though others tried to get their attention throughout the meal, it was hard to do.
Sir Henry tried twice to ask if she knew the place where the Rosetta stone was found. "Yes, very well. The fort is central in the town named for it. We call it Rashid." "The French like to claim they found it," he said. "But an old army friend of mine, whose father was with Admiral Nelson when he fought [00:08:00] Napoleon's forces in Egypt, claimed one of his savants was led to it by a local peasant girl he had fallen madly in love with."
"He's right," Ranya agreed. "According to local legend, she was more than just a fellaha. She was the siren djinn of the Nile and Nadaha, who, with her beauty and song, could lure men to a watery death. It is said that the Nadaha would sometimes use her voice to possess a human body. And as far back as any can remember, she'd use the women of a particular family as vessels for her immortality.
Maybe she fell in love with that savant of Napoleon's. Or maybe they drowned together. Neither was ever heard from again." "Fascinating!" Sir Henry practically clapped while his wife mumbled something that sounded like hogwash to their daughter. Ranya dismissed it as a reference to the meal they had eaten.
As for Owen, he only exhaled, loud and deep, a [00:09:00] breath she felt in her own chest.
Katherine Grant: What a great scene! I love it when we see the hero or the heroine supporting the other in a very dramatic way. Tense moment. I love that. Thank you.
Heba Helmy: No problem. I'm glad.
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All right, and we are back with Heba Helmy, who just read a sample from the Earl's Egyptian heiress, a fantastic dinner party scene, which by the way, dinner party scenes are very hard to write because there are so many moving pieces. So I really enjoyed that the, I mean, obviously the scene starts with Ranya's reaction to this food that is so unfamiliar to her.
And that stood out to me as this touch point that I think it's very common for cultures to create prejudice against each other based on what they eat. And it was really interesting to see her perspective on English food and what was objectionable to [00:11:00] her. And so I'm curious, you know, as you were writing this Egyptian heiress as a heroine, how much going in, did you know that you wanted it to be a story of what was her experience
coming to England and being an other and confronting that versus how much of that came up as you were just writing?
Heba Helmy: Well, it's funny because I'm like, I think I know people say don't read reviews, but it was my debut. So I'm reading all the reviews. I think somebody made a comment and I said this to someone at the time that they said the English parts were kind of clunky.
Like they wanted the Egyptian parts more. There was that familiarity, right? And there was that comfort maybe in my writing and I wanted it to be a little clunky because it was clunky for her, you know, she has all these emotions going in. And yeah, I think that I wanted to put myself in her shoes, right?
And I wanted the reader to put [00:12:00] themselves in her shoes and see that, yes, these are these prejudices that haven't really, like left, right? When people know each other and people get to know each other and realize, okay, especially the one with the pig, right? Because a lot of people will say, Oh, you know Muslims don't eat pig.
And this is her reaction to it. And they would use it against me. And so I wanted to just kind of confront that one. So, and I, and I wanted to confront issues right head on. So I think I did go into it with this kind of modern day. These are the prejudices that have you know, You know, been born out of this history for such a long time.
And so yeah, I, I, I think I did do it purposefully that I wanted, I wanted it to be clunky. I wanted her to confront these prejudices and kind of apply it to this modern reader and say, look, we existed in this world. It happened and this is how we faced it then this is how we face it now.
Katherine Grant: Think it's helpful for you know, like I'm [00:13:00] more familiar with the English side of the history and everything, and also the English perspective. I haven't had that many opportunities to read disruptive narratives that are from not the, you know, traditional school of thought.
And so it's just really refreshing and interesting and challenging
to get characters saying, well, this is weird that you do this. And like, have that opportunity to kind of re evaluate what do I think is normal? What makes that normal?
Now, I was talking to another author recently who is writing Mexican characters and she brought them to England in part because that would sell the book more to her publishers and presumably to readers.
Did you consider setting your books in Egypt? Were you kind of required to bring it to England in order to get it into market?
Heba Helmy: No, I wasn't required, especially for this one but the types of stories are too heavy, right? Like too out of there. So, like, I was [00:14:00] trying to, I was querying, I was, you know, I had, like, I have about five books in my drawer, as they say, right? That weren't getting, didn't have enough traction, right? So having this character who was you know going to England and, and, you know, And even, yeah, you're bringing up issues here right now.
For sure, this idea of what will sell, right? And and it's, I think that, like, I'm a big believer in the familiarity. Right? Things that are familiar, but with novelty, right? So things that are familiar are good. Like these are the kinds of books I would like to read. Right. But I want that little twist. I want that little showing me something different.
So for her storyline to actually, you know, her going to England I think that that was part of what I had intended anyway. I wanted to show you somebody in this realm going to this place and, you know, being tough and and [00:15:00] willing to, you know stick to her principles, no matter where she was, but finding it difficult as well.
And so this idea of wanting her to go there for sure. In this next book though, in the Viscount, which came out, I was like, no, this one's all set in Egypt, right? And I wanted to show a different aspect. Look, this is the royal opulence of Egypt. So yeah, we have this, you know, poor man Viscount, who doesn't have many prospects.
And you have this princess who is very much a princess, right? Who has this kind of legacy behind her and, and history and there's opulence there. And it's all Cairo and I'm from Alexandria. So Alexandria actually is very you know personal to me. It's where I was born. It's where when we go back and visits where I stay.
So even Cairo for me was kind of an adventure because I spent a lot of time there. So doing a lot of research for Cairo. In this time [00:16:00] period, you know, it was so fun because. It was really like a jaunt, right? And, and there's not too many pyramids in there. Like, there's like a scene of the pyramids in the background.
It's not even the pyramids. So it's a Cairo, I think too, that people will totally be unfamiliar with that was this rich opulent, you know, could be anybody in England at the time kind of thing. Right. So so it was really fun to. Just completely have it like there's a, there's a prologue that happens in Paris.
But we don't stay there long. The whole thing is in Cairo. So, so yeah, that's awesome. Yeah, it was, it was kind of fun. And yeah, I don't know. I hope people will enjoy it.
Katherine Grant: Yeah, I, I am sure because there's also this tradition of historical romances that are like travel historical romances.
So. This is in that vein, but a little different center.
Heba Helmy: Yeah. And even with the first one, like you know, my editor and my copy editor and everybody, they were like, [00:17:00] would this happen in England at the time? Would this happen? And it was like, kind of actually a challenge, right? To kind of like, okay, yeah, this would happen.
This would happen. And so I had to kind of keep backing, but being back on my turf, Yeah, definitely happened in Cairo. So there's a familiarity with being in a time period in a place that you have a little bit more freedom and there's not like that much kind of like you said earlier around you know, perceptions already, you know, breaking those perceptions is going to be a lot harder than giving the same time period in a place that people don't know anything about, right?
And so for them, it's just now, like you're saying travel experience. It's like something they're not really going to be jolted as something like a dinner scene that would normally occur. And this kind of jolted in that way. So it's different experience for sure, but
Katherine Grant: yeah,
Heba Helmy: Just as nice.
Katherine Grant: It sounds amazing.
Now you [00:18:00] mentioned in earlier that you have some novels in your drawer and I read online that you were writing some YA dystopian before you got to romance. So can you tell us about your journey from maybe did you start in YA and then once you got to YA, how did you end up going to historical romance?
Heba Helmy: So I worked in YA. Yeah. If people find my, my university profile, they'll see that I actually wrote a dystopian for my thesis, which was really interesting experience and, and I thought that I could, you know, it did pretty good actually, even in the query trenches, like I was getting a lot of I guess this this was back in maybe 2016 2017.
Yeah, something like that. So it was doing okay, but dystopian was kind of dying at the same time. So, and I don't know, maybe it was just too different as well. So I did start in YA and I kept on plugging away in YA and I did a historical fantasy that got me a lot of opportunities.
It never [00:19:00] got published, but it did get me a lot of opportunities. One of them was Pitch Wars. I don't know if people are familiar with Pitch Wars anymore, but it was really big in the writing community for a while.
And a lot of the Pitch Wars, like my my class, a lot of their books have been published, really exciting stuff. So Yeah, so I got to pitch wars, and then I just kind of like set it aside, and I had worked on another adult project, which was well, which I still have hope for and it was this time period, right, around, you know, I had done research around the cotton industry of the time period, because for that particular, and that one was adult historical as well.
And it wasn't necessarily romance, but it was adult historical there's a romantic element to it. So I had that research and all of my MA was mostly in the Victorian era, right? So this is my area. This is the area I love to read. This is the area I like, if there's things on TV, this is what I'm going to watch, right?[00:20:00]
So I had an industry meeting based on that pitch wars book. And she was like, Oh, you know, historical romance is really what do you think? And I'm like, yeah, I could do that.
Like I've done historical, I love romance. You know, like let's put them together. And so I felt like there was an opportunity there. And I wrote this one, that first draft pretty quickly. So it's the Earl's Egyptian Heiress. I wrote it pretty quickly. It was rough. I had a, like the opening scene that was really solid.
And then there was there was something called smooch pit, which it's like like pitch wars, but it's for romance only. And it was their first year. And I had said, okay, I'm going to try to write this historical romance. You don't need an agent for it.
I'm just going to submit to Harlequin. And then I saw this contest and the editor that I was thinking of submitting to she was one of the people who had volunteered to read to offer 50 page edits and query letter edits for [00:21:00] this. So I said, you know what, I'm just going to like, go ahead. Submit it.
I was, so I got on the call, her name is Carly. I got on the call with Carly when she, she picked me. Right. And I was like, Oh my God. And then I was like, you know, I wrote this for you. Basically. I wrote this for Harlequin. I was going to submit it. I know it doesn't need an agent. And I'm like sick with querying and getting close, but not close enough.
So I wrote this for you. And then she's like, okay, I'll read the whole thing. And and so it wasn't done. I'm like, okay. This is my one shot. Let me work on it. And then, so then she called me about, I don't know how many months later. And she's like, okay, I got a chance.
I want to offer you a contract. And so that's how I got the contract. So it was really, really serendipitous and just the right timing. And, and, you know, I've learned so much from her, like even when she bought it after I thought it was pretty good. And then it's just like, yeah, I'm like, why did you buy this?
Right. So much. So there was so [00:22:00] much that I had to keep learning and I'm continually learning and, and that kind of focus and homing in on the romance. Like I said, I've come from YA dystopian, YA fantasy. So just like really you know, Homing in on the romance and then and what romance readers want.
And that sounded like you talked earlier about you know, do you want this, do you want it to take place because that's the kind of convention and romance is about meeting conventions and It's taken a while for me to kind of like have that click in my mind, even though I knew it, and I don't think that there's anything, and I've never thought there was anything wrong with it, right?
Because in the sense that if you're not writing happily ever after, you're not necessarily writing to tropes and conventions, then you're not sitting on the bookshelf where people are supposed to find you. So people get lucky. And I think that one of the key points that [00:23:00] I learned from this very long journey of going from dystopian to historical romance is that a book should meet those genre expectations.
Like you can write dystopian, right? But now, so I have this kind of clearer sense of where things sit on the shelf. And it's not necessarily just about about saying, okay, I want to be creative. I want to tell a story. And, and that's all nice. I have to also think about what shelf is it going to be
on.
Yeah.
Katherine Grant: Yeah. Were there any romance authors that you were reading to kind of get familiar with the genre? I mean, I know you were reading it before but Yeah.
Heba Helmy: Yeah, for craft purposes, I think it's different than for
what sticks and sells. Right? So there was those two sides that I was trying to balance and for craft purposes, like Holly Black [00:24:00] is just a fan. Like I can't go wrong, but that's the fantasy space, right? Sabaa Tahir was through the Muslim Storytellership Fellowship, which it was the Highlights Foundation.
This was YA. She was a personal mentor and Sabaa Tahir in the YA space fantasy space and even her more contemporary has won all the awards. So I'm inspired by Muslim writers a lot too. And in terms of the romance, I would say that Diana Quincy for sure. Right. The, the kind of having these Arab American heroines and her novels, and they're so popular and well done.
I feel she's been a great inspiration to me I came to her late I didn't even know that there were Arab American authors right. Yeah. Yeah, for sure. And even just like in terms of the bigness of the Bridgerton series, right? So I absolutely only read the Bridgerton series when the show came [00:25:00] out. But seeing what they've done to kind of bring in diverse characters and how they disrupted that on the show.
Like when I first sort of pitched this, the idea was it's like a Bridgerton meets, you know North and South, so that was the kind of selling point. It's cotton industry Egyptian perspective meets this kind of like diverse season two of Bridgerton where you know, there's this, you know, brown girl who is thrown into the season kind of thing.
So yeah, I think that you know, the popularity, why some things are popular and what's really cool about the Bridgerton series and how, you know, they're being kind of revamped. And I would say that, you know, there's this history even indies, the historical romance that you know, has this diverse and it's a space that it can happen and has been happening.
Beverly Jenkins, like for sure, all these names are coming up, but yeah, for [00:26:00] sure. They're all in terms of what they're doing in terms of craft and in terms of even reaching readers, I think. Yeah. Yeah.
Katherine Grant: But what I'm also hearing you express there is that there is a lack of authors, Muslim authors, or, you know, non white authors for you to look up to.
There are a few. As a white person, I can be like, oh, look at all these historical romance authors that I identify with, and I can choose from. I have a feast of choices. So I'm really glad that you are writing, and you are kind of, you know courageously writing the stories that you want to tell because I bet there are like already hundreds of readers who are being inspired by you and, you know, in a few years, you're going to be quoted as someone who has inspired another
author.
Heba Helmy: Thank you so much. That's actually a nice thought. And, and we don't think, I don't think about it that way, but that's really nice of you to say, because sometimes, you know, you're [00:27:00] just wanting to tell your story and putting out there. But yeah, but absolutely. It's about mentorship and it's about, you know, trying to learn from people and, and thank you.
Katherine Grant: Yeah. Well, it's time to move away from sentimentality and find out how much of a rule breaker are you with love it or leave it.
Heba Helmy: Okay.
Katherine Grant: Okay. Do you love it or leave it? Protagonists meet in the first 10%.
Heba Helmy: Yes, I love it. Like, I hate when it's like slow, that slow of a burn, right? Or when they give us like, kind of like a, A guy who you kind of get invested in and then he's not the main character.
Oh, yeah. Yeah.
So absolutely the first 10%, a meeting quick on and then separate them fine. But that that initial meeting, [00:28:00] absolutely, especially with Harlequin, like, you only have 70, 000 words. So even like my editor, she's like, oh, they've been away from each other too long. Bring them back together quickly.
So yeah, definitely meet early, get them back together quickly. So yeah, for sure. Love it.
Katherine Grant: All right. Love it or leave it. Dual point of view narration.
Heba Helmy: Absolutely love it. I love to read it because you get that different sense. I love to write it because I can get sometimes get bored. I don't know, maybe other writers like yourself, maybe other, but you get bored with your, sometimes with writing in the scene.
So having that ability to switch up and be in somebody else's head is exciting for me as a writer. It's. hard when you have more than two for sure, right? But it doesn't really happen in what in romance, I think, right? That's more of
a dystopian sort of situation.
Sure. So yeah, I love though, do appeal to me, because I think we need both [00:29:00] sides.
I think it's really exciting to see a character through someone else's eyes to you know, And, and see their reaction to things. So it just feels like almost would do, do a POV. It's like you're reading two books and two in one kind of thing. Right. So so yeah, I love it.
Katherine Grant: Yeah. All right. Love it or leave it third person past tense.
Heba Helmy: For adult historical, that's what we do, right? But I really, I, I do like it. I wouldn't say I love it. But I like it and I understand that it fits, right, for this particular genre. And is that to say that it has to all the time? No. So I do think, and, and, but coming from this YA.
space. I mean, it could work first person. It could work. Like, I think the story demands, right? The story, the characters demand, and the genre demands. So I do like the ability in adult historical romance because, you know, you're giving that historical sense. [00:30:00] You're taking people back. You're showing them things.
And I think that it's quite useful and it's the medium of choice. So, you know, it happens that you can get a romance with first person. But for me at this time, I think for my historical romance, I think this is what works. So I'm loving it at the moment is what I would say.
Katherine Grant: A fair answer.
All right. Love it or leave it. The third act breakup or dark moment.
Heba Helmy: I keep I keep going back to this past in YA. And in YA, it's all about the hero's journey. And so you need that dark moment. You need that breakup. And for romance, I bring that in too. Like, I feel like it needs to be there. So there needs to be some kind of breakup.
Something pulling them apart. Something that is good. going to make it look like they'll never get together and this is a fail and some sacrifice needs to be made on both their [00:31:00] parts for them to get there happily ever, ever after. So absolutely need it. Love it. And yeah, Yeah, I love it. You need that dark moment.
You need that third act breakup. Yeah.
Katherine Grant: All right. Love it or leave it. Always end with an epilogue.
Heba Helmy: No, I would leave it. Like I don't, I, I would, if you asked me prologue, I'd be like, yeah, prologue. I love a good prologue, but I don't necessarily need an epilogue.
Katherine Grant: That's very interesting.
Heba Helmy: Yeah. I love the idea of an epilogue when there's balance, like I have a prologue and an epilogue, maybe, but at the same time, my last one only has a prologue, it doesn't have an epilogue.
And I remember thinking in the beginning that I would write one. And then I decided not to. And I was like, cause it doesn't work. Cause the prologue is very different. And I find that for when I, but I love, love prologues. Love them. That is so interesting. Yeah, I [00:32:00] I always, I don't always use them.
And I know that it's kind of like a faux pas too, to not have to, even like when I was querying, they're like, no, don't include your prologue. I would always like, I love prologues I find that the prologue just sets things up. And usually in my writing and the things that I have in the drawer, the prologue is a very different voice than actually the characters.
So it's almost like I don't want to do them too much. Like maybe there's a sense of mystery, maybe there's a sense of like a frame for the story. So I find that I use them as a framing kind of thing. And in a voice that is fun for me. So I like writing them. I like reading them.
And, and then an epilogue, if it's not serving that same function, then I'm like, I don't need it. Right. Epilogue in terms of, yes, we see that they're happily ever after. I think in romance, that's the kind of thing that romance readers are looking for, but I feel that if I give them that happy ending, then it's [00:33:00] enough.
So I don't necessarily need an epilogue.
Katherine Grant: Yeah. That's very interesting. I feel like I could talk to you for another hour about that. So I'm going to move on, but I'm, it's very interesting. All right. Love it or leave it share research in author's notes.
Heba Helmy: Yeah, absolutely love it. I think that the great thing about historical romance is that you get the romance, you get the history. And so having that note at the end, if I'm finishing a book and I get a historical note, I'm like, oh wow, like I didn't know this and I didn't know this idea.
And so absolutely. I love that. I love that little bonus at the end that's an author's note. Why they wrote something, what inspired something. I think as an author, especially in knowing the process. I feel like it's such a treat to get. And, and when I give it, like in the last book that I have, one of the things that I learned was that Verde's Aida was first performed in Cairo and people don't know this and I didn't know that. Right. [00:34:00] So they get to attend. And I didn't know that. And I wrote it in the author's note.
I'm like, look, this is, this is a really cool thing that I learned. And I hope that, you know, Now people will know. So they get that little tidbit like, you think something happened here? I love it when an authors note actually disrupt some kind of commonly held belief about something. So,
Katherine Grant: yeah.
Yeah. That's awesome.
Heba Helmy: Yeah.
Katherine Grant: All right. And are there any other romance rules that you break or play with?
Heba Helmy: I think that, that like I talked about earlier this idea of there's conventions right but giving it novelty, and trying to make it like yeah this is an Egyptian princess or this is an African princess or this is something that people necessarily won't read a lot of.
I think that that is how I would say that I like to break it like through the characters that are unexpected through the choices that they'll [00:35:00] make
it's not like one or the other, that every reiteration, every story is different. And, and even when I'm writing, I feel that I don't want to write the same thing, right? I want to write characters who are different. I want to play a bit that there's not one way to tell a story, but there, but for this particular character that I'm writing in this particular moment, in this particular novel, that that it's unique to her or it's unique to him that they're so fleshed out in my head and hopefully on the page that only this, this person could only act in this way or could only answer in this way.
So people talk about, you know My first heroine, she's super strong Egyptian, you know, the other one is kind of a little bit meek in a way. And so, it was almost like challenging myself because I've always written these strong characters, right, female characters, and this one's a little bit, [00:36:00] you know, Not so much.
Katherine Grant: Yeah.
Heba Helmy: And it was, it was kind of a challenge to be honest with you. Just so out of my box and it just didn't work for a long time. And then it did for me, at least I felt like, okay, she's talking to me now. This is what she would do. This is how she would react. This is, you know, she seems meek, but this is what's going on inside.
This is where her strength is coming from. Right. So. Breaking conventions in that sense that I'm really, really thinking about the uniqueness of a character. Even if that character, you know, might be something that you expect from a Muslim woman who wears a veil or a Muslim woman who doesn't wear a veil, right?
That it's going to disrupt those expectations, I think, and, and, but still be unique to that particular character.
Katherine Grant: Yeah, no, I like that. I think What I'm learning from this segment is that you understand the conventions, you'll follow the conventions, but you're also going to [00:37:00] disrupt them when it is convenient.
Heba Helmy: It's a rare story. Yeah. Convenient and necessary. I think a particular story with particular characters. So and, and defining that is going to be not necessarily easy because it's going to shift with The different characters for sure.
Katherine Grant: Yeah, we can all be on the journey with you reading your books and seeing what you're going to do next.
Speaking of which, okay, so where can readers find the Earl's Egyptian heiress and a Viscount for an Egyptian princess?
Heba Helmy: So I think if you anywhere hopefully Barnes and Noble, hopefully if you go to the historical romance, I don't think you find the Earl's Egyptian heiress there now because it was last year, but this one is available.
Now at at major retailers. I think harlequin. com if you find it on harlequin. com it lists in the sidebar all the different [00:38:00] places. I am, I have a link tree. My website isn't great, but I have a link tree. I'm on Twitter. I'm on Instagram and ,
Katherine Grant: Awesome. Well, I'll put those links in the show notes so people can find.
You and your books. I really appreciate you coming on the podcast. Also really appreciate you writing your books.
Heba Helmy: Thank you so much, Katherine. I had so much fun. It was lovely talking to you.
Katherine Grant: That's it for this week. Check out the show notes where I put links for my guests, myself, and the podcast. Until next week, happy reading.