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Debra Parmley Samples Trapping the Butterfly
Katherine Grant: Welcome to the historical romance sampler podcast. I'm your host, Katherine Grant, and each week I introduce you to another amazing historical romance author. My guest reads a little sample of their work, and then we move into a free ranging interview. If you like these episodes, don't forget to subscribe to the historical romance sampler, wherever you listen to podcasts and follow us on Instagram, TikTok, and YouTube.
Now let's get into this week's episode.
I am excited to be joined today by Debra Parmley. Debra is an adventurous, multi-gen author and world traveler, published since 2008. Debra has more than 38 books in print, in historical romance, contemporary romance, dystopian romance, urban fantasy, romance, fairytale romance, holiday romance, poetry, and nonfiction.
A Gemini born on June 7th and sharing a birthday with Prince Debra loves purple polka dots, imagining stories and playing with words. You'll find danger, action, and adventure and romance in her stories backed by the belief that every day we are alive is a beautiful day, which is a part of everything she does with her writing and her life.
And it's a beautiful day to have you join us here on the podcast.
Debra Parmley: Thank you so much, Katherine. I appreciate this.
Katherine Grant: Yeah. I'm really excited to hear a little bit of the story you're gonna read and talk to you more about your long and varied career. So I know you're reading for us Trapping the Butterfly.
What should we know about Trapping the Butterfly?
Debra Parmley: Okay. Trapping the Butterfly is the first book in my 1920s Butterflies Fly Free series. Each book is about a different heroine and they don't have to be read in order, but it is book one, so I'm starting with book one. And this book, she is 17, turning 18 and wanting to break free in the 1920s.
There were a lot of ways that women broke free and the follow up book, book two. She is not young. She's a dancer and has had boyfriends, so they're kind of like grease. Trapping the butterfly's heroine would be, sandy and the second book would be Rizzo. So the, the women are very different and, and what I am enjoying about this is that I can then focus on each woman what she needs to do to be freer.
And so with Bethany, she is being raised by her aunt and uncle. They're very controlling. They're planning a trip to Hot Springs, Arkansas, where the book is set, and they will be going to the Arlington Hotel where Al Capone used to rent the fourth floor. Al Capone will be there with his men, and so will a detective who is watching them.
And then there is the man that her aunt and uncle would like her to marry. So there are actually three men interested in Bethany, and I'm gonna start you with chapter one to just get the feel of moving into that world.
Katherine Grant: Fantastic. Well take it away whenever you're ready.
Debra Parmley: Okay.
So chapter one, it's August, 1926. Bethany Robinson did not need yet another lecture on being appreciative. "Thank you, aunt Margaret." She accepted the gold trimmed white China plate her aunt handed her while clearing her throat to disguise the grumbling of her stomach, placing the plate in front of her on the table.
She waited and tried not to look at the food placed upon it. At the head of the table, uncle James cut a large bite of chicken and popped it into his mouth without waiting for anyone. Aunt Margaret said nothing but straightened her fork with that look upon her face, her lips puckering like a prune.
She straightened the fork again, showing her blue veins and the bones beneath her thin, pale skin. Aunt Margaret was in a mood, and she obviously wasn't going to say grace. So it would be one of those kind of meals. If only Bethany could have eaten in the kitchen with Cook as she'd been allowed to when she was younger. She glanced down at her chicken, wondering if it was safe to eat a bite or if that would draw her aunt's attention and sour mood.
Perhaps it would be best to wait. The tension in the room gathered closer and the more she could distance herself from that, the better. Her stomach rumbled again. "Margaret," uncle Jane said, "please eat something."
Her aunt, a small bird-like woman who hardly ate enough to keep a bird alive, said, "I couldn't eat a bite."
Such a predictable old refrain. "Not a thing." Aunt Margaret sighed. "You go on, dear, take it." She held at her plate to him looking away from it as if the food offended her. "I simply can't." Bethany would've loved for her aunt to have offered her the savory chicken she'd passed over to Uncle James, but she said nothing and instead cut her own portion and two small pieces and ate one slow bite so as not to draw attention to herself.
Having an entire breast of chicken all for herself just once would be nice. Her aunt always cut the chicken breast in half. One might fill her up, if anything could. Bethany suspected Aunt Margaret counted how many bites Bethany took. Though counting bites was something Bethany did too, it was different when she did it.
Four more bites. See, out of five. If she chewed them slowly enough, she might feel full, faster. Strange how that sometimes worked. That and drinking lots of water, though not today. Not the way Aunt Margaret stared at her with that look. Her brown eyes darkening like storm clouds gathering.
Thump.
"Enough."
Uncle James thumped his fist on the table again, his fork still in his hand. Both women turned to him in surprise. "Enough. I am taking you to Hot Springs National Park for the baths and you will not argue with me."
Bethany raised one eyebrow. He wasn't talking to her. She never argued with Uncle James, but was he talking about, what did he mean by enough?
"One likes to be asked." Margaret sniffed and her facial expression turned haughty. "There is no need to speak to a lady in that tone, Mr. Robinson."
"Mrs. Robinson, I'm asking you to travel with me to the medicinal springs to partake of the baths and healing properties of the waters." His tone brooked no argument and said just as clearly that he was not asking, but telling.
"I will think about it."
Uncle James, knowing as well as Bethany did that the phrase Aunt Margaret had just used meant no, then changed his tone and his approach. "I am asking out of concern for you, dear. Your health is no better and seems to be getting worse."
"I have done everything the doctor asked."
"Yes. And now we are going to try a new doctor, one who has had success with women in your condition."
What exactly was that condition? They always referred to it as one of Aunt Margaret's spells. Maybe this new doctor would finally have a name for it. "The trip will do you good. And I have a meeting with Mr. Rivaldi after we arrive about the merger we've been discussing."
She glanced over at Bethany, then back again.
"Yes, he is amiable."
"Well then," Aunt Margaret sniffed, "we shall all go to hot springs and take the baths." She shot a pointed glance at Bethany. Bethany placed her hands in her lap and folded her fingers together.
"When are we going?"
"Next week," uncle James said. "We'll take a two week holiday." He nodded at his wife again.
"That should be long enough," and Margaret nodded in agreement. Would two weeks be long enough to cure her aunt? That didn't seem like very long.
"Oh, but if we're gone that long, that means we'll be away on my birthday." Bethany blurted out and then stopped herself from saying more. This would be her 18th birthday.
She'd moved from counting down the months to counting the weeks. Soon she would be of age and no longer under Aunt Margaret's thumb. " We'll celebrate your birthday in Hot Springs. That will make it a very memorable trip." Aunt Margaret's smiled a secretive smile. That smile would've made Bethany nervous had they not been discussing her birthday.
Just a week left to plan before they left for Hot Springs, Arkansas. Bethany would have to change her original idea, but she would still go through with it. Nothing short of illness or death would stop her from carrying out her plan. Being in Hot Springs might even make it easier.
Bethany had never been inside the train station before.
She peeked out beneath her wide brimmed hat as she looked about, taking in the sights and sounds around her. Her aunt resembled a crow in a tailored black Worsted jersey suit, gray hat and black shoes as she darted her gaze about the station looking for an open space on one of the wooden benches. Not for the first time,
Bethany noticed how old fashioned her aunt appeared in the skirt that came nearly to her ankles. The suit was at least five years old, and her aunt wouldn't replace it until it wore out. Despite the fact Mr. Robinson owned his own company and moved among the wealthier members of society, his frugal wife stretched every penny and clung to the older fashions.
Most of the women bustling about the station wore newer fashions and shorter skirts. Bethany glanced down at her own navy blue Georgette crepe frock, which fell well below the knee, the long lacy collar the only pretty thing she liked about it. At least with her wide brimmed hat, she could duck her head and hide when she wanted to.
Oh, what she wouldn't give to wear one of those shorter dropped waist dresses with a close hat and bobbed hair. She'd look like other girls her age and she'd go dancing with boys. She could not wait for the day when she could pick out her own clothes and go when and where she wanted. Soon she would be 18 and would be able to use her inheritance.
She hoped. Uncle James had always been vague about the terms of the will and monies her parents had left behind for her.
"Come along," aunt Margaret said, interrupting her thoughts. "We will sit and wait for your uncle."
"Yes ma'am." Bethany followed her aunt, who had noticed an open spot on one of the benches and strode toward it, determined to claim it for her own. People moved away from her when she was in that mood and had that look up on her face.
Her aunt, tiny as she was, could be a formidable woman. Soon she and Bethany sat together on a high backed wooden bench. People bustled around the train station, many carrying newspapers and reading the headlines as they walked. Everyone else appeared to be reading the paper. Something must have happened.
A long line of passengers stretched around the newspaper stand and more joined the line as soon as it started to shorten. Whatever had happened must have been awful. Women cried and men shook their heads and looked mournful. Bethany strained to see a newspaper held by a man nearby. The headline read: Rudolph Valentino dead August 23rd, 1926.
Sudden Death at the age of 31.
Oh no, he couldn't be dead. He just had an operation a week ago. His latest movie had just come out, and he'd gone to New York to promote it. He was too young to be dead, so young and handsome. How could Rudolph Valentino be dead?
A tear formed in the corner of Bethany's eye.
Uncle James sat down next to her and she asked, "Uncle James, are you going to buy a newspaper?"
"What for?" He frowned. Uncle James read the business news and kept up daily with Wall Street, but rarely followed stories unless they were about money or politics.
"To read about what happened to Rudolph Valentino."
"You want to read about the death of some movie star?"
Uncle James directed his frown at her.
"Well, yes. Everyone is mourning him. Can't you see?"
"He must have been a drinker," aunt Margaret said. "That's what happens to wild young men who drink."
"Hollywood types," uncle James said with distaste and disdain. "They all drink."
"The women too. It's disgraceful." Aunt Margaret nodded.
She and Uncle James were in favor of Prohibition and looked down on lawbreakers. Aunt Margaret always pointed out how all the good churches now serve grape juice in place of communion wine.
"No, there's nothing in that paper I wish to read." Uncle James pulled out his pocket watch to look at it, signaling the discussion was closed.
"Young women today," aunt Margaret, pause and let the word trail away. "I simply don't understand them." The dark-haired flapper who had drawn Aunt Margaret's attention walked by cigarette holder in hand, as if on cue to emphasize Aunt Margaret's point. "Drinking, smoking, running wild." Aunt Margaret tsked then sniffed and turned her head away from the flapper, dismissing the thin, vivacious girl who was now talking with friends.
Ignoring Aunt Margaret, bethany fingered her clutch purse. She'd saved for months to collect the money inside it. Though she yearned for a newspaper, she knew that if she bought one, it meant dipping into her fund. Best not to dip into it for anything, or her plan might fail. "I blame the parents," aunt Margaret said. "You are a fortunate young lady. Why, if we hadn't taken you in, who knows what might've happened to you."
"Yes, ma'am. Thank you." The words slipped out automatically, the pattern long established from 10 years of similar conversations.
Katherine Grant: Wow. What a great opening scene that really, you know, pulls us into the 1920s. Yes. Well, I've got lots of questions for you about this, but first we're gonna take a quick break for our sponsors.
Katherine Grant: I am back with Debra Parmley, who just read us a sample from chapter one of Trapping the Butterfly, which is available in bookstores now. And you know, this scene did so much to set up the setting of the 1920s and give us the feel for the fashion and, and the societal stuff going on with prohibition and flappers and conservatism versus, you know, new ways of thinking. I think maybe a good place to start is just what drew you to writing a 1920s historical romance?
Debra Parmley: The era has always fascinated me because there so many things changed for women.
It came right on the tail of we got the vote, and then suddenly if you wanted to cut your hair, you could, if you wanted to wear a dress that came to your knees, the corset went away. I actually have a scene in this book where she meets a flapper who convinces her to cut up her corset as she's
becoming more free. So each book in the series is about the heroine becoming more free. And for Bethany, it's very much everything from what she eats to what she wears, to where she goes. Everything she does has been controlled. So like any 18-year-old who is excited to be more free, she's just wanting to grab it all.
And they're going to the Arlington Hotel in Hot Springs where it's actually part of the National Park system there. You can go there and you can take the baths and you can go through the old bathhouses and the Arlington has the baths with it. And, we stayed there and I've been there a couple times.
It was fun to research and I got to take the baths and I got to see the fourth floor. Al Capone used to rent the entire fourth floor, but it's funny, when I called them to, I wanted to get the dates to match up because he's in the book, so I want to try to matchup dates and not have him be somewhere else.
When I got, they could neither confirm or deny that he had ever stayed at the Arlington Hotel. They would say not a thing. And I thought, well, they're still holding to that. Yeah. Even though when you go there, they have plaques that this is where he stayed and they even had one of his cars in the lobby once.
Oh wow. I was so tickled when they said that to me. They could either confirm or deny.
Katherine Grant: So what was it like to write a real historical character in to this story? Does she interact with Al Capone?
Debra Parmley: She does a little bit briefly. I had to grab a time period where I couldn't find him somewhere else, because that would make it more likely because I prefer to bring in actual history. So that helped me decide when. It's kind of like dominoes though, but I got these time periods and I was looking around for what was going on, and I came across that newspaper, and that's directly from the newspaper,
what they said about rudolph Valentino. And I said, oh, perfect. It's wonderful when things start to kind of align. Yeah. And so it was a good, because that fits her. You know, she is a young girl. Of course she loves Rudolph Valentino, all the young girls did. So but I started with the idea of her, my heroines always come to me first.
So I knew I wanted to write her story and all of the different things that she would need to do to be independent again. She's got a long way to go. So she's torn. There are three men that are interested in her. One is one of a Capone's guys, and he's of course. Dangerous. So there's a little pull that way.
Then there's the detective who is the good guy, and there's definitely a pull that way. And then there's the man that her aunt and uncle want her to marry, and that's the merger that's referred to. And that's the only reason Aunt Margaret is agreeing to go is because they're going to introduce them and have, they want this to happen.
And it's actually a control tactic because they're aware that they will not have control of her money at a certain point. Mm-hmm. And if she's married off, then you know, the businesses will be connected this. And so it's just another way for them to grab, hold and control. So I won't say much about what happens other than she does go on a date with the, the fellow they want her to marry to to see the Sheikh,
which is Rudolph Valentino. So there that movie is in there. So I had great fun finding the different things I could pull in and you can find things on YouTube that are old, black and whites, so you can actually see the dancing and what they're wearing and movies. You could find the chic and the the songs.
So I immersed myself in all of that when I'm writing and mm-hmm. Things just pop up for me. Just, oh, this is the time period for that same, that same year this happened. Oh, this perfect.
Katherine Grant: Yeah. I think it's a really interesting metaphor for the heroine to be an 18-year-old trying, or almost 18-year-old, trying to get
control over her own life and figure out what this independence is to have that be in the time period where women just got the vote and there was so much freedom that it works on a metaphoric level as well, which is really cool.
Something I love to ask authors who are multi-genre authors is. How do you know when a story should be a historical romance or a paranormal, or a contemporary, or you have a holidays, you have fairytales. So tell me more about your creative process and how you end up writing in these different sub genres?
Debra Parmley: I started out writing Western Historical published through Samhain back in 2008, which they wanted the historical, so they didn't want anything else but the historical. Well, that's fine.
I'm a Gemini and that doesn't work so well for me. If I only do the one thing, it slows me down to a snail's pace with writing. So I got into a, well, I'll write this for you and I'll write this for me. 'cause actually was writing faster by doing that. And I also have a habit of not staring at a blank page.
I give myself a certain amount of minutes. If it's not coming to me, I will do something else. So. Different genres. I can jump from one to the other. There's no confusion about what's going on. Things don't carry over, and I can keep writing and then I've relaxed enough on book A to come back to it and be like, oh, that's what I needed, instead of sitting there and wasting time.
So I ended up writing for five small presses. The tricky thing was nobody wanted 1920s.
They wouldn't even talk about it. So this first book I had started it for me but I didn't send it out anywhere, but now I can do what I want with it. So not only was I able to publish this first book, but I make a whole series out of it and, the freedom to do that, and then to make each book about a different flapper.
I think that the 1920s is so much more than people realize. Most people will say to me, they didn't even know that Hot Springs was active in the 1920s as far as being a a big time.
But in Hot Springs, the mayor was crooked. And so the gangsters went there for vacation. So you didn't see it in the news because they weren't shooting each other up there. They were there, they put the guns down, they're there to relax, go to the races. The mayor had this, you're not shooting up in my town kind of a thing.
You come here to relax. And so it was their playground and very opulent playground. So it was a fun setting to ride in and a really fun place to go. If you ever get a chance to go to Hot Springs, Arkansas, go and take the bath.
Katherine Grant: Yeah, it sounds really cool. And this is kind of a fun throwaway question, but what does it mean to you to share your birthday with Prince?
Debra Parmley: Well, growing up with his music and knowing it was his birthday, I got in the habit of playing his music on my birthday. So every year I play Purple Rain and I love the song. And watching him as an artist though, it fits me because I'm a multi genre artist.
And at the beginning when people were saying, write this, write the westerns write, and I, not nothing against westerns, I loved writing the westerns, but I wanted to do more than that. And I finally owned my own creativity when I started to say I share a birthday with Prince, and to me it's like, would you ask Prince to only play one instrument or to only play one kind of music and expect him to do that?
Well, he's going to say no. And so that's what I need to do. So as a result, I have more books out than I would've had if I'd stuck to the one that everyone's telling me to do, which is really more about marketing than a, than about being creative, I think.
Katherine Grant: Yeah, that makes a lot of sense to me.
I also, I have trouble maybe comparing my creativity to other authors or looking at other authors careers and saying, that's the kind of career I want to have. But when I hear certain musicians doing things, trying different experiments or whatever, I'm able to be like, oh yeah, that's. That makes total sense for them to do that.
And can I do something similar, but in the romance sphere?
Debra Parmley: Yes. Yes. And with writing, because I'm sure with him it was like, let's play around with this and see what it does. Because that was his creativity. I can give myself permission to do that and say, well, what if I play, what if I tried writing this from this person's point of view and let's just see how it looks, you know?
'cause there's a difference between, you know, doing that and experimenting and then putting a book out. You know, you play around, then you figure out, well, what's better, you know, is whose point of view is it?
And I like to think of my writing more as play now. When it's time to edit it and put it out there, that's, that's when I think about what I do with it, when it's out. But the, the actual first drafts that's me playing and, it's great fun. I think writing should be fun.
Katherine Grant: Yeah. Oh, I love that. Well, I think it's a good time to move to our game.
Love it or leave it?
[Musical Interlude]
Katherine Grant: Do you love it or leave it? The protagonists meet in the first 10% of the story.
Debra Parmley: I love it. I love it. Yeah.
Katherine Grant: All right. Love it or leave it? Dual point of view narration.
Debra Parmley: Love it. With romance, I think we need it.
Katherine Grant: Love it or leave it? Third person, past tense.
Debra Parmley: I love reading and writing in third. I've tried writing in first and it doesn't work for me so well so I'll probably stick with that.
Katherine Grant: All right. Love it or leave it? The third act dark moment or breakup.
Debra Parmley: I'm not so fond of the breakups. So I would have to lean more toward a dark moment.
Of course there's always that will, they won't they kind of thing. Even if there's not a big dramatic something, there's something that's going through it that's making them hesitate instead of jumping in with both feet right away.
Katherine Grant: All right. Love it or leave it? Always end with an epilogue.
Debra Parmley: I've only done one.
When I'm reading books, I get to that part and I'm like, okay. And I just kind of feel like, you know, could we have had that in the last chapter somehow? I need to believe by the last chapter that they have the happily ever after. And I like imagining that myself. So, and, and I know some readers really like Epilogues, but for the ones that maybe don't want the epilogue, I just want to trust my reader to imagine, you know, what they would have the couple.
Because, you know, some people would imagine, oh, they have five kids and then the next one will be like, no, they pursue their art and their writing and they don't have any kids, and each woman in real life is different. So I think I like letting my readers take that, what direction they would like to be.
Katherine Grant: All right. Love it to leave it? Always share research in your author's notes.
Debra Parmley: I haven't, I haven't. I tend to only read that afterword sometimes. I don't always read it when I'm in a book, so and a little bit of mystery is good. I will direct people to different things. So I have a YouTube channel where I have 1920s playlist.
And I'd rather do that so they can see for themselves, what am I looking at, you know, what am I listening to and watching.
Katherine Grant: Okay. And are there any other rules I didn't ask about that you like to break or play with?
Debra Parmley: Hmm. Well, I broke a rule in the first book that I ever wrote because I didn't know it was a rule.
So it's a western set in 1867, and she's married with two kids, but her husband steals her son and takes him from Kansas to Texas. She doesn't know where they are and her farm's being auctioned. He's gone through all her money and then she finds out that he's a bigamist and their marriage isn't legal.
Well, it's good I have that part in there because I was told you can't have a married woman fall in love with anybody else. So it was a little gray area there. But the publisher said, okay, we've got, since this is, you know, since he's, they're really not married and he's clearly the villain. And, I didn't do that a second time though.
Because, well, I clearly, I wasn't writing a story about a, a woman who just met another guy and then she's married. I didn't do that. But I think there are some rules out there that it's okay to break if you do it the, in, in a, in a good way, in a way that makes it work. Mm-hmm. So, so maybe the rules or guidelines that we need to just kind of say, Hmm, and this, is this a good, good one or not?
Katherine Grant: Yeah. Yeah. That's a great way to think about it. Yeah. Well, Debra, thank you so much for coming on. Where can the listeners find you and your books?
Debra Parmley: Well, thank you for having me here, Katherine. This has been so much fun. Debra parmley.com is my website, and I'm on the socials. I also have a YouTube channel, a beautiful day. You can find all of this stuff connected to my website. And I have a newsletter that goes out once a month which is the, the most up-to-date ways would be my website, my newsletter, and I also have a brand new discord.
So I'm finding my way around Discord. And I did this because I had a little bit of a problem in 2024. Facebook locked me out for four months. So though I have a reader group in there, I couldn't communicate with my reader group. And when I finally had an IT person help me get back in I said, okay, I don't want this to happen again.
I don't have much control over that, so. Having a Discord, I can always chat with my readers and they can chat with me. I don't have to worry about somebody, you know, blocking me out because it's a server, not a social media. So if anybody's on Discord, I will send you an invitation and happily let you in.
Katherine Grant: Awesome. Well listeners, I will as always put Debra's website in show notes so you can find all of those awesome resources. Thank you again. This has been really a fantastic chat. Thank you, Katherine.
That's it for this week! Don't forget to subscribe to the Historical Romance Sampler wherever you listen, and follow us on Instagram, TikTok, and YouTube. Until next week, happy reading!