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Emily EK Murdoch Samples A Fighting Chance
[00:00:00]
Katherine Grant: Welcome to the historical romance sampler podcast. I'm your host, Katherine Grant, and each week I introduce you to another amazing historical romance author. My guest reads a little sample of their work, and then we move into a free ranging interview. If you like these episodes, don't forget to subscribe to the historical romance sampler, wherever you listen to podcasts and follow us on Instagram, TikTok, and YouTube.
Now let's get into this week's episode. I am super excited to be joined today by Emily E. K. Murdoch. Emily is a Brit writing happily ever afters with heart and humor, and she has multiple personalities. As Emily E. K. Murdoch, she is a USA Today best selling author with over 70 romances published across four languages. As Emily Murdoch Perkins, [00:01:00] her nonfiction debut, Regina, a feminist exploration of what the British monarchy would have looked like if the eldest daughters, not sons, inherited the throne, released in October 2024.
And as Emily Murdoch, she teaches and speaks on the craft and business of writing, for which she won the Regency Academe Teacher of the Year Award in 2024. When she is not writing, she's busy eating cheese. trying not to buy another sword, and, oh yeah, writing. Emily, thank you so much for coming on the podcast.
Emily EK Murdoch: Oh, it is my absolute pleasure. It is a delight to be here. Thank you for having me.
Katherine Grant: Yeah, I know that we're going to kind of center it on one of your historical romances, but I also have lots of questions for you about all of your personalities as it were.
Emily EK Murdoch: Well excellent, I'm excited to get into it.
Katherine Grant: So what are you reading for us today?
Emily EK Murdoch: I am reading you quite a new opening scene from a book called A Fighting Chance. [00:02:00] So this is book one of my The Chances series and as the title suggests this is following a family. So the first four books follow four brothers in the Regency era and book one follows the eldest brother. William, Duke of Cothrom, who is the primest and most proper hero I think I've ever written.
And I've written quite a few. He is very by the book, he doesn't like scandal, he doesn't like any sort of intrigue, he doesn't like lying, and he spends most of his time attempting to keep his three brothers, who are very roguish, in line. Bless him. So, just to set the scene William is taking a shortcut through Hyde Park because he's late.
We're in 1812 and a woman walks into his arms and quite literally throws herself at him. And so that is, that's to setting the scene and so we shall dive in.
Katherine Grant: Awesome. I'm excited.
Emily EK Murdoch: "Dear me," said the woman in a loud voice. "Now you'll have to marry me." [00:03:00] William blinked. "What?" She couldn't be serious. The very idea.
But then his mind, somehow lost in the confusion of desire and want and surprise, managed to make itself heard. He, a gentleman, was standing with a woman in his arms. A woman he did not know. A woman who was panting wildly. And so, somehow, was he. And they were standing, alone, no chaperone, in a woodland, where anything could happen.
William shoved the woman away from himself so violently she almost fell over. It wasn't very gentlemanly to be sure, but he was not about to lose his reputation. It wasn't difficult. Why else did he spend his life guarding against any hint of impropriety at every instant? Why else did he constantly have to argue with his brothers, trying to get them to take their appearance in society carefully?
Because all it would take was one mistake, one slip, and all of a sudden you've lost your reputation. William swallowed, [00:04:00] though he was certainly not going to marry a woman merely to avoid some scandal. The very idea. The woman, however, did not appear to be of the same mind. "You will have to marry me." "I most certainly do not," William said gruffly, placing his hands protectively behind his back.
That was it. Demonstrate he had no intention toward her beyond that of preventing her from falling to the ground. And kissing her. The little voice reminded him of that particular instinct was not welcome, but try as he might, William did not appear to be able to push it aside. Damn it. "You took me in your arms," the woman said, pointing most determinedly.
"We are all alone here. You might have intended-" "I intended nothing, woman," said William irritably. Perhaps if he had not just had a debate with his brothers, he would not feel so prickly. As it was, he'd spent all morning concocting the perfect arguments, less than ten minutes having torn them apart by Aylesbury and Lindow, and was now most irritated.
Not that it was the fault of this woman, of course, whoever [00:05:00] she was. "Everyone knows," the woman was saying, "if a gentleman and a lady find themselves in a compromised position," William glanced about them, pulse hammering. It slowed as he saw what he had hoped. No one was there. No one had witnessed the sudden embrace he and this woman, whoever she was, had shared.
No one save she could have seen the way he looked at her and he had to hope that she had no idea he'd wanted to. "I think you were almost about to kiss me," said the woman slowly, "and then you would most certainly have had to marry me." She held her head high as though her point was clear and irrefutable.
The trouble was in almost any other situation, William would have agreed with her. If he had discovered one of his brothers in a similar clinch, he would have been marching that Chance brother down to buy a special licence and make an honest woman of the poor dear who would be joining the family. Not that he was ever about to admit to that particular piece of secret hypocrisy.
"I was not about to kiss you," [00:06:00] William lied stiffly. Fine, it was one lie. He could be forgiven that. "And if you had," the woman said quietly, taking a step toward him, " Would you have married me?" William opened his mouth to reply and then realised he had absolutely no idea. Would he have? She was beautiful. She attracted him, there was no doubt about that.
The stirring shooting to his loins when she had been nestled in his arms could not be denied. He was a stickler for the rules and the rules were quite clear. A hint of desire managed to break free from his icy heart and melted him. The mere thought of kissing this woman, of having her pressed up against him once more... Almost too late, William took a step back.
The woman had crept closer, evidently attempting to kiss him, to entrap him. "How dare you!" William said, attempting to keep his voice stern and push aside all delightful images of the woman kissing [00:07:00] him. "You are attempting to trap me!" "Nonsense," said the woman dismissively, taking another step toward him. William backed away, hitting the trunk of a tree and wondering what on earth was happening.
This simply did not happen. Elegantly dressed ladies in blue gowns and elegant straw bonnets did not accost gentlemen in Hyde Park for kisses. At least, if they did, he hadn't ever been included before. This was ridiculous. "I am not going to marry you," William said, hardly able to believe these words were coming out of his mouth.
"It is absolutely outlandish to suppose you wanted to kiss me, so why not do it?" The woman said, taking another step closer. William swallowed. His escape routes were swiftly diminishing with every step she took. Pushing past her wasn't an option. She would merely claim he had once again touched her. And it would be true.
This was [00:08:00] madness. He was about to be made to propose to No, no. He was the Duke of Cothrom. He was a Chance. He was not so foolish. Stepping aside swiftly, and seeing the surprise in her wide eyes, William congratulated himself on an escape well made. Just a few more steps, and he would be out of the woodland, out of danger.
"Sir, you must-" "I must nothing," said William, almost falling over his own feet in his eagerness to get away. If this had been any other situation, he would have laughed. Him? Running away from a beautiful woman? Any man running away from this woman would need his head examined. She was intriguing, alluring, and most anxious to be kissed.
An intoxicating combination. And perhaps if William had been a different kind of man, things would have been different. His brothers Aylesbury or Lindow certainly would not have missed the opportunity [00:09:00] to taste those lips. William swallowed. No wonder they persisted in their irresolute behaviour. If it was half as fun as this, he could well understand it.
But just because he saw the attraction, that did not mean he was going to capitulate. He was the Duke of Cothrom. He was, most of the time, the only thing holding the family back from ruin. And he was not going to go around kissing young ladies just because they asked for it. The woman appeared to be reading his thoughts.
"You, you aren't going to marry me, are you?" William hesitated, just for a moment. In the bright light of day, away from the green leafy canopy of the woodland, it was even clearer to him just what a beauty this woman was. There was an elegance, a refinement to her he had not expected with her stepping toward him with an eagerness of a harlot.
In any other scenario, he might have sought her out, wished to know her better, requested introduction, met her [00:10:00] father, and things could have been very different. William drew himself up. But things were not different. They were how they were, and he had no choice but to remind this woman, kindly but sternly, of her responsibilities to herself and to society.
Really. Perhaps she had heatstroke. Perhaps the sudden warmth of this spring day was playing havoc with her senses, William thought wildly. But then it had not been that warmer day when he had left to meet his brothers an hour ago. So why was he so overheated now? "I am not going to marry you," he said stiffly.
"Honestly, you are a fool for thinking that that sort of trick would work." The woman examined him closely, hint of a smile dancing across her lips. "And you aren't tempted." William swallowed. Temptation was one thing, giving in was another, and he was not about to permit himself that weakness no matter [00:11:00] how much he wanted to.
He hadn't got this far in life, sacrificed so much. Held himself to such a high standard for so long merely to give it all up for the chance of a kiss with a woman he did not know. "I am not tempted in the least," he said, lying for the second time that day, a personal worst. "I'll have you know, I'm far too respect far too respectable, I repeat, to be taken in by such a ruse."
Even though he almost had been. "And good day to you!" Without another word, William turned on his heels and marched away. To his relief, the Lancaster Gate was close. It meant a stepping onto Bayswater Road, preventing him from giving in to the second temptation of the day, which he had not expected. The temptation to look back.
That's such a great button on that scene. Ta da! That was so much fun. I have lots of questions for you. Thank you for reading that. First, we're going to take [00:12:00] a quick break for our sponsors.
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Katherine Grant: All right, well, I am back with Emily E. K. Murdoch, who just read a fantastic meet cute from her novel, A Fighting Chance, and okay, there was a lot that I really enjoyed about that. I personally love a story where characters do get married from a scandal, but I was also really enjoying this kind of foil of that, where He's just, he's not going to let himself be entrapped and she, we didn't get any of her perspective, but I'm very intrigued by what her motives are that she's throwing herself at him.
I was on mute, so you didn't hear [00:14:00] this, but I was laughing out loud. Particularly when he was like, she must have heat stroke. So my question is, how does the humor come to you when you are thinking about writing? Is it innate or are you, did you sit down and think what would be funny and this is how I'm going to do it?
Emily EK Murdoch: Well, I love the fact that you were laughing because that is, that is the goal. I think many people who know me kind of in my day to day life would be astonished to find that my writing is funny, because I'm not a particularly funny person in person. It takes me a while to think of things and so every now and again I'll say something, and people will be like, Emily, we've moved on, like that was our topic of conversation ten minutes ago, and I'm like, I know, but I've just, I've just put together the perfect retort to what you said, and they're like, we can't even remember what, what we said.
But weirdly, when I'm writing, it does flow a little bit more naturally, I think because I know unconsciously that if it doesn't work, I'll catch it in the edits. So there's not so much pressure to get it perfect in the moment, which when you're speaking in a group or with friends or with a partner, [00:15:00] there is that pressure to be funny immediately and for the line to be perfect.
But I can, I can write what I think is something funny and then I don't have to stress about it because I'll think, well, if it's not funny, I can either improve it or I can cut it when I come back to it. Does that make sense? Yeah.
Katherine Grant: Yeah. I love that. And so you've written over 70 romances at this point, which is.
An incredible number. What would you say is, like, puts you into a story when you're thinking about writing it?
Emily EK Murdoch: I love creating a hero and a heroine who have one massive similarity and one massive difference. And that's usually connected to their push pull connections. So something that's really drawing them together and something that is absolutely preventing them from being together.
So one of the romances I wrote that I think describes this perfectly is Always the Bluestocking. So my heroine is a blue stocking, she wants to go to university, this is Regency Oxford, she's desperate to be accepted for her academic brilliance and her mind [00:16:00] and the hero is at Oxford and hates it.
He's really not enjoying himself, he's gone back for a reunion, it's reminding him of all the times that he was unhappy there, and so they, when they meet, there's this instant attraction of you're really smart, you're really smart, and actually intelligence is incredibly attractive to both of them, but he doesn't believe in women being educated, and she very much is like oh nobody's gonna stop me, nobody, in fact I meet, I meet, I think I wrote this book five years ago, I think it's She's being dragged out of the Oxford library and she's thrown out onto the ground by the librarians and he literally looks down and says something a little bit disparaging about women in education.
And she's like, Oh no, we are going to sort this out. We're going to have, we're going to talk about this. And I love that because it pulls them apart and it pushes them apart at the same time.
Katherine Grant: Yeah. That's a really interesting and that creates so much interesting tension naturally in a [00:17:00] story that must really
propel the story itself forward.
Emily EK Murdoch: 100%. And then you can layer things on. So Mariah, who's my heroine in that story, is adopted. And so she's still working out her place in the world. And her parents clearly favoured another child, and so she's constantly warring with her brother, who is the golden boy.
And so she's always looking to do better, be better, be the best. And so that's a big driving forward motion in her. That's not anything to do with romance, it's all to do with identity. And then my hero is Irish. In 1812 Britain, which is a complicated thing to be and so he's got a title but it's, he's still looked down upon, he's seen as very other and very different so he is constantly being made to feel inferior and that has given him not really an inferiority complex, but this sense that he has to be the best again.
And again, this is another point of similarity, but it's coming from very different places. And I really [00:18:00] like playing with that, the idea that actually sometimes chalk and cheese, and you know, that's fine. Plenty of the books I write are cheese and cheese or chalk and chalk, but sometimes that natural tension, as you say, which is built in brings about quite a lot of fun and hilarity because, you know, dating, befriending people, meeting people and becoming friends with them is inherently funny sometimes.
Sometimes these bizarre things just happen. You have these wild conversations and you suddenly realize you're completely different from someone and you really like them.
Katherine Grant: Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. Okay, so one question I love to ask authors who have as many books as you do is, what have you learned about yourself as you have written all these books?
Emily EK Murdoch: Hmm. I think that love comes in many forms. And that it's okay that your loved people around you may look different to others. Everyone's relationship with their parents, their siblings, their spouse, [00:19:00] their friends, their colleagues will look different.
And that's okay, measuring yourself against that other person. Because there's always, most people have that person, it's usually a frenemy, who they're like, well they got married at this age, or well they got that management position at this age, or that person speaks with their mother every day, or that person.
And. It's so easy to slip into comparisonitis. And I think having written so many romances, and a lot of the love stories in my books, there's always a romantic story. But there's often a romantic story. Surrounding that, love between parent and child, love between sisters, love between friends, enemies to lovers, enemies to friends, you know, reconciliation of many different kinds.
And I think that exploring all those things in fiction has enabled me to look around in my life and be like, actually, yeah, I love all these people very differently. And actually, it doesn't matter how other people would treat their grandmother or [00:20:00] treat their boss or what actually. As long as I'm happy with it and no one's getting hurt, it's okay.
Katherine Grant: Yeah. Well, that is really beautiful. Regina, as we said in the bio, is a nonfiction piece of history work that looks at what would have happened if the daughters had inherited instead of the sons, the throne of England. Yeah. So my first question is: what made you want to write this as non fiction rather than maybe speculative fiction?
Emily EK Murdoch: I think it started off because I'm a medievalist by trade, which people are often quite surprised by because I haven't written tons of medieval. I do have a very short medieval series, but mostly I stick to Regency and Victorian. But my Master's is in Medieval Studies. And There are a lot of medieval princesses who did absolutely wild things.
Wild, like would be wild now. So there was a princess who stripped naked in a noble court to prove she didn't have leprosy. There was a [00:21:00] princess who wrote angry letters to her parents demanding that she can have sex with her husband because she was being forbidden from doing so. And I was worried that if I wrote this speculative history or in any way made it feel like fiction,
people would assume that it couldn't have happened. And so the book is very much kind of 80 90 percent history, biographies, you know, narrative non fiction, telling the stories of these incredible women who lived, who actually lived. And then kind of a 10 percent at the end, like, okay, so now we know what they were like, we know the sort of decisions they made, we know the sort of world they lived in.
If they'd been the Queen, here is my thoughts as a historian and also as a storyteller and someone who has studied and examined people and personalities and characters and decision making. This is what I reckon might have happened and I'm very clear what is history and what is speculation because that's quite important to me.
Katherine Grant: Yeah, no, that's really, really interesting. And I love there is so much in history that we like wouldn't believe is true. So I love that you're unearthing these [00:22:00] stories and centering the female narratives that we don't hear very often. So I do a lot of research for my fiction. And I love it. I take a lot of notes, all of that.
But I also really enjoy not having to be accountable. So like, I don't have to cite my sources in footnotes or whatever. So I'm curious about your research process for your fiction versus your nonfiction.
Did you have to make a big sea change to approach this nonfiction book?
Emily EK Murdoch: Yes. So my undergrad was history and English joint honors. And then my master's was medieval studies, which was I guess a collaborative master's course through all the departments.
So history, history of art. Languages, Latin, paleography, archaeology, all of the, so really, really exciting, really lovely. But I am, as people can probably tell from my delightful accent, I am British. I grew up in Canterbury, I studied at York, I've lived outside Bath, I'm now outside just, well, within London, so I have [00:23:00] lived in a lot of the places that I write about, and because I love Jane Austen and I've read a lot of historical romance and I do a lot of narrative non fiction reading, and I always have done, this is going to sound terrible, I don't do a lot of research for historical romances anymore.
Because I know it. And that sounds really arrogant, but there's only so many times I can read about when certain kings lived. And I don't need to read about what Bath looked like in the Regency era, because I lived round the corner from there for six years and it looks exactly the same. So My, my research process is more about ensuring that my characters have strong enough conflict and I'm making sure that my scenes vary in terms of location and that not every scene happens at a ball and not every scene only has these characters.
Moving from that to non fiction was a huge step change because I last finished academia over a decade ago. Which I loved, but, you know, that, it's a long time to, to [00:24:00] not be doing that. And I did find myself, every now and again, as I was writing Regina, stopping and going, I've just written that this princess did this thing.
Is that because I imagined that they would do that? Is that because I've read it somewhere else? Because it's not on my notes, so where have I got that from? Did I read it in my master's research? I get out all my master's notes, I'm looking through those. Did I read it in any of my narrative non fictions?
I'm checking those, you know. Because what I never wanted to do was mislead people. There was a very clear demarcation. This section's history and this small section is speculation. But there were things that I had clearly remembered and absorbed and absorbed. that reads like fiction. Like, for example, eyeglasses arrived in England around 1200, 1250, but the fork didn't until 1600.
Katherine Grant: Wow.
Emily EK Murdoch: Yeah. Things, things like that, where I was writing and I go, that can't be right. Or we're pretty sure that Elizabeth of [00:25:00] York Henry VIII's mother, taught him how to read and write because their handwriting is almost identical. Things like that, where you go. Did I make that up? Did I see that in the Tudors?
Did I? I just need to check because it doesn't seem true and actually it is and you know I don't, I can't think of anything that I caught myself and I was like no that's not that actually having done the double checking that's, that's not true. There were a few things where I had to be very careful of my phrasing.
So things like, she was incensed by her husband's wife. And I was like, was she incensed? Do I have the evidence to back up that she was incensed? She wasn't happy, but was she incensed? Incensed is a very strong word. And in fiction, my character can do whatever I want. But when I'm retelling a story from history, I had to be very careful that I wasn't exaggerating anything for dramatic effect.
Which was really hard, hand on heart. It was really difficult.
Katherine Grant: Yeah, I think, I would think so, especially since we are in the trade of fiction and really getting into people's [00:26:00] emotions and getting that on the page to then have to back off.
Emily EK Murdoch: And, you know, in that situation, I'd be incensed. So it's, you know, you have to be very careful you're not projecting on, you know, so and so from the 1300s or the 1800s, because I think, well, I'd be incensed, but actually, would a Stuart princess be incensed?
She'd probably be used to that sort of behavior, living in that, you know, restoration court. She might not like it, but she probably wasn't incensed. That's probably me being offended on her behalf.
Katherine Grant: And I think it's time to play our game, Love It or Leave It, where we find out, are you a rule follower with romance conventions?
Emily EK Murdoch: I think my readers who know me will not be surprised by any of my answers to these.
[Musical Interlude]
Emily EK Murdoch: Alright,
Katherine Grant: well, love it or leave it? Protagonists meet in the first 10 percent of the novel.
Emily EK Murdoch: Love it, my protagonists always meet in the first chapter. So within the first 5%, my hero and [00:27:00] heroine have met each other.
Katherine Grant: Awesome.
Love it or leave it? Dual point of view narration.
Emily EK Murdoch: Ugh, love it for romance. But not necessarily for historical fiction. I think sometimes single point of view for that works better.
Katherine Grant: Love it or leave it, third person, past tense.
Emily EK Murdoch: Ugh, love it. It's how I prefer to write. I have written first person and I have written present tense on other projects and other genres.
But I do find it a lot harder. I've spent so much time in third person, past tense, it just, it does flow naturally.
Katherine Grant: Yeah. Love it or leave it, third act, breakup, or dark moment?
Emily EK Murdoch: Love it both. So I, I really want my readers at that moment to believe that not only will my hero and heroine never be together again, but also that they're never going to be happy again.
It has to be like the depths, which is hard because I've usually spent like 80 percent of the book being like, well, of course they're going to get together. [00:28:00] So being able to be like, Oh, are they, are they? It's very difficult sometimes, but I really enjoy it. It's one of my favourite parts to write.
Katherine Grant: Love it or leave it, always end with an epilogue.
Emily EK Murdoch: Love it. Love it, love it, love it. I love to read it. I love to write it. I think partly because I find it very hard to let characters go. It's why My series are typically quite long, so kind of 10, 12, 20 books in a series, and they all take place with, you know, every single book is standalone, but they're in a world of siblings or friends or neighbors.
So I love epilogues that feature previous couples or tease future heroes and heroines. Oh, I love it.
Katherine Grant: Love it, leave it?
Share
research in your
author's note.
Emily EK Murdoch: Leave it. Ooh. So I, I write my historical romances with the aim that someone who knows nothing about that time, period, or place could pick it up and enjoy it, so.
I try very hard [00:29:00] to weave any and all explanations to be contextual in the books. So readers don't need any explanations by the end of it. So I know that that's probably my one rebellion, I guess.
Katherine Grant: Are
there romance rules I didn't ask about that you tend to maybe push the boundaries on?
Emily EK Murdoch: I don't know if it's a rule.
I think typically Intimacy occurs in the last 25 percent of a historical romance and I don't always leave that to the last 25%, sometimes it's not the last 50%, sometimes it's in the first 25%. I think because I quite like marriage of convenience and I quite like having the wedding quite early. And then the consequences of that work out after that but also because I quite like writing rakes who inadvertently fall in love with someone they didn't intend to.
And I quite like writing experienced women who experience pleasure and no pleasure and seek [00:30:00] pleasure and then catch feelings. I quite like writing those characters. So yeah, for me, intimacy can happen at any point in the book, it's not always right near the end.
Katherine Grant: All right, well that's good to know that readers should open your books and they're never going to know when the intimacy is going to happen.
Emily EK Murdoch: Nope.
Katherine Grant: I love that. Thank you so much for coming on the podcast. This has been really great to talk to you. Where can our listeners find you and your books?
Emily EK Murdoch: Well, it's
hopefully quite easy. If you search Emily E. K. Murdoch, that's Emily spelt the normal way, and then E for Echo, K for Kilo, Murdoch, M U R D O C H, you will find my socials, because I'm the same everywhere, my website, just add com on the end, and chuck it into Amazon and it will hopefully show you a bunch of different historical romances.
If you're looking for Regina, there's You can search Regina, R E G I N A, and then Emily Murdoch Perkins, spelled exactly as you'd expect.
Katherine Grant: [00:31:00] Thank you, and I will put the link to your website in the show notes so listeners, you can click on through right there.
Emily EK Murdoch: Fantastic.
Katherine Grant: Thank you again, Emily. I really, really am glad you came on.
Emily EK Murdoch: Oh, thank you. This has been so fun.
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