FULL EPISODE TRANSCRIPT
Katherine Grant Samples The Sailor Without a Sweetheart - with a Special Guest Host!
[00:00:00] Sarah: Welcome to the Historical Romance Sampler podcast. This is the place for you to find a new historical romance book and authors to fan over. I'm Sarah Flanagan, sister of the award winning historical romance author, Katherine Grant. And this week, I'm guest hosting to interview Katherine herself to share a little bit of her work with us.
and herself. She'll read a sample of her latest book, and then I'm going to ask her a bunch of questions. By the end of the episode, you'll have a sense of what she writes
and who she is. Hopefully, you and I
will both have something new to read. So, what are we waiting for? Let's get into this week's episode.
[00:00:35] Katherine Grant: Yay! My big sister is
here. Well, so my newsletter subscribers already have a sense of who you are because I have shared the story of how you built me a dress or sewed me a dress.
Whatever the proper term is, even though you live in New Zealand, and I live in New York City, and we did not see each other at all, you made me two dresses. That's correct. Yeah. So if you're not a newsletter subscriber, go subscribe so you can hear that story. But I'm very excited to have you Interview me.
You know, I read a sample for the first episode and had my husband interview me. And then you Sarah have been my first reader since my first book, which is when I was 12. And it was a fan fiction of Ella Enchanted. And you've been my biggest supporter. And so I'm excited to have a conversation that the rest of the world can listen to.
Between
[00:01:30] Sarah: us. Yeah,
yeah. Yeah, that's right. I'm excited as well.
[00:01:34] Katherine Grant: Well, first comes the sample portion of the podcast. So today I am reading a sample of my new book, The Sailor Without a Sweetheart, which came out April, 2024.
And this is, in my Preston series, but it is a persuasion inspired story. So Nate Preston is a naval captain and six years ago during his training, he fell in love with Amy Lamplugh and they had plans to marry, but she ultimately backed out. And now they have ended up on the same estate. She's visiting her sister who lives in the Dower house and he is visiting her in laws.
He's a as he's awaiting a court martial. And you know, neither of them were expecting to see each other ever again. So that is the setup of the book. And I'm going to read a scene from the beginning. They have encountered each other. By surprise, at a group dinner, and Amy suffers from a chronic illness, and she's so kind of overcome by both her illness and the shock of seeing Nate that she faints.
And so this picks up right after she has fainted. Nate leapt to Amy's side before he knew what he was doing. She had crumpled on the floor just behind her brother in law's chair. Most of her face and stomach turned down. Thank God for the imported Arabian carpet lining the room. or else Amy's head might have hit hardwood.
Nate touched her hand to rouse her. "Miss Lamplugh." Already, her eyes were blinking open. A good sign. Nate had known many people, women and men, to faint. It was only when they stayed that way for more than a few seconds that one really had to worry. "You fainted," he told her, since in his experience of sailors collapsing, they never believed what had just happened.
"Are you injured?" She blinked at him again. Hazel eyes. Had he ever forgotten? They were that magic color that changed with the light. On summer afternoons, they had always seemed as green as hedgerows. Now they were dark and amber, like seawater in a sandy harbor. "She's fine," Mrs. Bremridge, the former Miss Mary, replied from her seat.
"You mustn't be alarmed, Captain." Lady Olivia had rounded the table by now and crouched on Amy's other side. "Have you hit your head, my dear?" "No, I'm sorry. Don't make a fuss." The words came weakly out of her. She was still deathly pale, and her fingers felt like icicles. Nate discovered he was holding onto them like some kind of lovesick husband.
He let her go. "Perhaps the family's physician can be called." "There is no need," Mrs. Bremridge said, her voice growing shrill. "This is one of her episodes, that is all. By the time Dr. Beckett arrives, she'll be fresh as a daisy. You really mustn't be concerned, Captain Preston." Was she scolding him because she did not want to pay a physician's fee?
Or because she did not want Amy receiving his attention? Miss Mary Lamplugh, after all, must have known about his offer of marriage. Perhaps Amy had even confided in her about their plan to elope. Was the younger sister playing protector because she was afraid Nate had returned to whisk Amy away once and for all?
Nate schooled himself to keep indignation from steaming out his ears. "She's right," Amy said, but her voice was still soft and weak. "I need rest, that's all." She looked like she needed much more than rest. The Amy of six years ago had cherubic cheeks, and a generous helping of flesh filling out her shoulders, bosom, and, when she had let him catch her in his arms, waist.
Nate wouldn't have recognized this Amy if he hadn't committed so much of her to memory. For now, she was all skin and bones. As if she had gone a month without rations. In the parlor, Nate had been stricken by how her eyes sank into their sockets and her cheeks hollowed into her jaw. Pair that with how her lips had no color, and was that a tremble in her hand as she reached forward, trying to rise onto her feet?
This woman needed far more than a few hours in bed. But, as Mrs. Bremridge made clear, Amy Lamplugh's health was far from Nate's concern. "I'll ring a maid and have the blue room freshened up for you," Lady Olivia said, wrapping an arm around Amy to help her stand. "Oh no, I'd rather go home." At least her voice was beginning to sound steadier.
"To the dowerhouse, I mean." Nate wondered if that really was what she meant. Would she prefer to be at Swan Hill House? Or was there somewhere else, someone else, that she longed for but could not speak of? It didn't matter. The family had a course of action with regard to Amy, and it did not include him.
Nate was about to return to his seat when she took a step on her own, and promptly started crumpling back to the floor. He caught her. Because he was a naval captain, and he was standing right next to her, and that was what a gentleman did. Not because he longed to have her in his arms again. "Oh." Amy cried, softly, for her voice was going weak once more.
"Thank you." She was a rag doll backed into his arms. Nate gripped her from behind with one hand on her left elbow, and the other arm wrapped tightly around her waist. Gently, he rearranged the two of them so that her feet were solidly on the ground. "You had better not walk just yet." "Fred will see her back to the dower house."
Mrs. Bremridge said, "then he'll come back for me." Mr. Brenridge, who was still in his seat, turned around with a wince. "I should be happy to escort you, of course, Ms. Lamplugh only. I did twist my shoulder last week." This had to be a farce, a farce of a family, and a farce of a reunion of parted lovers. Nate had no choice but to offer his next words, even though he knew they would make him look overeager.
"I shall carry Miss Lamplugh, if you could show me the way, Mr. Bremridge." There was a pause, as everyone in the dining room considered the situation. Nate would welcome an objection, if only there were a better way to see Amy back to the dower house without risking a fall, and without requiring her to wait for horses to be hitched to a cart.
Amy's hands landed on his, where it sat beneath her ribcage. It was still ice cold, but it was also firm, keeping him there. "Thank you, Captain Preston. I do not deserve your kindness, but I will accept it." For a moment, Nate was transported back in time to a sunny afternoon at Swan Hill House. They had left Amy's great aunt sitting on a chair by the edge of the lake, and set out around its shore.
Under a willow tree they had nestled together. Amy between his legs, her back against his chest and his against the trunk. He had felt every word vibrate through her chest into his. Almost as much as he had wanted to steal a kiss, he had felt the magic of that connection and had yearned for the moment to never end.
At the time, he had thought it was the beginning of a lifetime. Now he knew it was only a memory. He avoided Amy's eyes as he, with the sanction of the rest of the party, lifted her into his arms. Her arms looped around his neck, her head only inches away from his. Her perfume, lavender, filled his nostrils.
Above his forearms, he could feel the boning of her short stays along her back. If he looked down, he would not look down. He was a gentleman. Mr. Bremeridge walked ahead of them through the house and onto the gravel drive. The night was young, with enough gray twilight that the lantern Bremeridge carried was hardly necessary.
"It is a quarter of an hour's walk, perhaps," Bremeridge said. "We'll be back before, we'll be back before pudding." As if Nate was concerned about missing a meal. "Mrs. Bremeridge has the right of it, hasn't she, Amy?" The man continued. "These spells come on every now and then, and after a bit of rest, you're in the best of health again.
Over excitement, the physician supposes. Which works differently on each person." "That is true. The physicians do not have an explanation." Amy adjusted her grip on Nate, her bare fingers brushing against the nape of his neck. He refused to acknowledge his body's reaction to that. "A bit of egg on your face, eh?"
Bremeridge said, turning over his shoulder to smile at his sister in law. "Fainting in the middle of a party like that?" That was too much to be borne. Nate felt Amy shrink in his arms, though she had enough strength to keep her chin held high, even with the angle he carried her at. He spoke before she could.
"I've seen men faint at far worse times. Once, when we were in negotiations with the King of Dahomey, my lieutenant collapsed the very moment the King arrived." Without meaning to, he glanced at Amy. She watched him with wide, solemn eyes. "What a fascinating life you have led." A life she had chosen not to be a part of.
Nate looked straight ahead at the path. He had recovered from her rejection years ago. There was no reason to feel it sting again now. They turned off the gravel drive onto a path of packed earth and grass. "Just a little bit farther now," Mr. Bremridge promised. "Need you a rest, Captain Preston?" "No." He had carried heavier things longer distances.
But there was no polite way to comment on Amy's weight. Especially when it seemed linked to whatever unexplainable episode she was suffering from. He redirected the question. "Have you need of a rest, Miss Lamplugh?" "No." She readjusted her arm again, so that her elbow clung more tightly around his neck. Her head was that much closer.
For just him to hear, she added, "I am quite comfortable." His body reacted in two halves. Joy, like sinking into a hot bath after days without a wash. For there was a part of him that had longed these six years to know that he could carry Amy in his arms and she would be comfortable. That she would hold onto him and not demand to be put down.
Pain, like catching the splinters of a broken mast in his back. Because he had wanted this. Had offered this. Had been ready to risk his career and name and wealth for just this, Amy in his arms, for the rest of his life. And she hadn't even had the decency to explain to his face why she would not marry him.
Had instead left him with a letter to memorize and twist into a thousand interpretations. Know that I love you, and if circumstances were different, I would marry you in the very next heartbeat. You must forget me now as you go forth on your destiny. I shall look forward for your name in the newspapers, to hear what a fine, heroic naval officer you become.
One day, I hope to read that you are married, too, and raising a family full of boys who will join you in defending goodness from the evils of the world. A good thing they were within sight of the dower house. It loomed ahead of them in the dark, brightened only by a few windows where lanterns stood in wait.
Bremridge led them through the front door. Navigating the stairs with Amy in his arms was a bit of a challenge. Nate angled himself on a diagonal so that neither Amy's head nor her feet would hit the wall or banister. She tried to help by ducking her shin, her ear landing on his shoulder. Perhaps she didn't consider how much that felt like a lover's embrace.
"This is Miss Lamplugh's chamber," Bremridge said, his words oscillating as they all realized together what an awkward thing it was for Nate to carry her directly to her bed. In those months that Nate had courted Amy, he had never so much as reached the same corridor as her room. He had never been able to fantasize about her in the specific decor of that Swan Hill bedroom, though he had certainly imagined her in his bed plenty of times.
And now, he lay her directly on a mattress. He watched her relax against a pillow. Her lips spread in a small smile. He saw her legs stretch out. Spotted the white silk stockings protecting her ankles from the evening air. It would be so easy to fall beside her onto the bed, to keep her in his arms, to kiss her once more with that senseless abandon that had so enchanted him six years ago.
But Nate didn't want that. The desire he felt wasn't even real. It was a memory of a younger self that had loved a younger Amy. He didn't know this Amy, she who was a dutiful sister and obedient daughter. And she certainly didn't know him. He was just a stranger, straightening from her bed after doing her a kind deed.
"I hope to find you in better health the next time our paths cross, Miss Lamplugh," he said. With a final nod, he took his leave of her.
[00:15:06] Sarah: Oh, how exciting. Who knows how, what's gonna happen next? What's gonna happen? Well, I have a lot of questions for you, but first, we'll take a pause for your sponsors.
[00:15:17] Annie R McEwen: [musical interlude].
[00:16:08] Katherine Grant: Hey samplers! It's Katherine Grant. I am interrupting this episode to tell you how to get a free book, the Viscount Without Virtue. First, go to bit.ly/hrs fan, go through the checkout process. This is where you add the promo code, HR SFAN as your last step. Just download your free ebook to your ereader.
Alright, well let's get back to this week's episode.
[00:16:47] Sarah: Awesome! Well. Let's jump right into the questions. So my first question for you is about this particular book. So in this book, Amy has a chronic illness, and I know that you drew inspiration for that illness from real life. And so I wondered if you could just talk a little bit more about how important it is for you to draw on personal experiences or things that you or family or friends have experienced when you're creating the life, life and loves of your characters.
[00:17:22] Katherine Grant: Interesting question. Yeah. So for this in particular, When I was first outlining the series, I knew that I wanted Amy to have a chronic illness. It was a, Partly because in Persuasion, they say, like, 17 times that Anne Elliot has lost the bloom of her youth, and she's 28. And I was just like, well, what if she lost her bloom of youth not because of age, but because she's ill?
And so I first kind of just was like, I want it to be a chronic illness. I know I want it to be something that she's suffering from, but also something that's not deadly. I don't want to give her consumption. But I didn't know what that would be. And so I literally wrote like, this is something you're going to have to research.
What would be a good chronic illness to give her? And then like that same month, I started experiencing heart palpitations. I lost weight unexpectedly. I lost a lot of hair. I had all these things. My body was just being weird and it ended in a diagnosis of Graves disease, which is a form of hyperthyroidism, and despite its name, it's not actually that grave, if you get medicine and so that kind of told, answered for me what her illness would be, and I also, when I first was writing, oh, I want this to be a chronic illness, I had this fear around, I don't want to tell a story of someone else's chronic illness and get it wrong, which is the fear I have with pretty much every book that I'm writing.
I am at some point writing an identity that is not my own and an experience that is not my own. So with this book, I was really able to just say, okay, I'm going to draw on my own experience. And I heightened some things like I've never fainted, but hyperthyroidism does increase anxiety and stuff like that.
But a lot of times when I'm exploring an identity that is not my own, I end up using an authenticity reader who I pay to read it just to tell me whether it rings true with their experience. But that said, I think even when I'm exploring identities that are not my own, I'm connecting to the character with something that's my life experience.
So, like, to answer your question, it's very important that I have something that resonates. So, like, Adrian Hawthorne in The Husband Plot is a mixed race, Black, Jamaican, British man, and I, on the surface, don't have very much in common with him, but he also has this experience of belonging to multiple cultures and not belonging to any of them, which is something, since we moved around, internationally growing up, that I know and experienced
and so that was the part of him that I was really more focused. I wasn't trying to say this is the experience of a Black Jamaican British man. It was more like this is the experience of someone who doesn't fit in.
[00:20:14] Sarah: Yeah, awesome. In this series, the Preston series. Family is an important part of the story, right? The whole series is based around one family and the siblings all show up in each other's books and all of that. It's true. So obviously historical romances are about family. romantic love, but family also often plays an important role.
How do you view the balance between family love and romantic love in your books? And do you ever do you, how much do you think that that shapes your characters?
[00:20:50] Katherine Grant: Hmm. I think
about it a lot.
There's often a tension between family love and romantic love. And sometimes the family is very supportive of love, but oftentimes the family is one of the obstacles to their happily ever afters. And with the Prestons, I think in general, I have explored a supportive family dynamic so
far.
And Intentionally so, because their family values love, and they value people being able to kind of self determine what is going to make them happy. But at the same time, when I think about the Preston family, with each book, I want to explore how does that sibling or member of the family Relate to their family.
And it's not just, Oh, how do I relate to my parents? But the family stands for so much and has so many weird radical values that, you know, they're not allowed to import things. They don't buy things that are really outside of their estate. They don't wear cotton or silk or anything that the upper class normally consumes.
So like, they're basically leading like this, like weird, austere, almost like Amish life out of their principles. And so I think in the Prestons, the tension is less about what is my relationship to my specific family members and more, what is my relationship to what my family stands for? That's what I'm really curious about and kind of the journey that each book is about.
[00:22:23] Sarah: Yeah, so less about like the actual family members and the love for the family members, but like the name of the title almost, right? Like the, yeah, the legacy relationship with the, yeah, exactly.
[00:22:36] Katherine Grant: Yeah. Yeah. And do they, like, do they choose to have those same principles like Ellen 100 percent is behind it and kind of has to be disillusioned.
And then Sophia is 100 percent not behind it. She thinks. And then I think, spoiler alert, by the end of the book, she's more of a Preston than she thought she was.
[00:22:57] Sarah: Indeed. The, the sort of premise behind the Prestons is very much kind of a modern values type of approach. And I know that when you were, when you interviewed, I think it was Celeste Barclay you talked a lot about modern versus historical values and how to balance the two.
And so I think it's a really interesting way that you've embedded that value as sort of an experiment in your books. But do you find that you ever struggle to have to I don't know, step back the modern values when you're writing the historical romances or do you ever have to, I don't know, change your instinct in the way as you're writing?
[00:23:38] Katherine Grant: Interesting question. I don't think so. I think one of the reasons I wanted to write The Prestons was when I was writing The Husband Plot. Adrian, who's the black Jamaican British man I mentioned earlier, has lived his life understanding racism as it was in the 1800s. And his white wife, Lisbeth, thinks she understands pays lip service to it, but has never really lived it or walked the walk.
And so it's basically, that story is her, like, awakening, becoming woke to the challenges that he faces. And I just had the sensation that if I was setting up similar plot devices, I was going to just be constantly writing about upper class privileged people, realizing that they have privileges and that they, and like what that means.
And I just didn't want to be writing the same story over and over again where people were becoming woke. And so I wanted this premise of no, they were raised to know that they have privileges that other people don't, and that maybe that's a problem for the Prestons. And I haven't found too many instances where it feels untrue.
I think, I think the biggest one is probably the, like, sexual independence, because there were a lot, there were radical people in Regency Britain who did espouse values similar to the Prestons. They didn't have exactly the same radical experiments going on, but there were some pretty close similar radical experiments going on.
And there were even some that were interested in feminism, and we're talking about changing the legal definition of marriage, and making divorce easier, and just generally valuing women more. But because there was no modern contraception, like, sex was still very dangerous. In that, like, you could get pregnant, There weren't a lot of safety nets for that.
There was a lot of stigma related to that. And then, of course, there were diseases. So I think that's the biggest thing that I might take liberties on. But I also think, especially in the lower classes, It was common to have sex outside of marriage. So it's really more like, were these upper class women going to do that before they got married?
That's kind of maybe like the most modern thing about it. But I, I think if you've been raised to see the world very differently than the rest of society does, you probably are willing to break rules that you think are stupid. Yeah. And especially in the heat of the moment.
[00:26:07] Sarah: I, so I, I know from reading your books and also from what you were just saying that like wokeness and being awareness, aware of privilege is one of the themes that runs through your books.
But are there any other themes that kind of. pop up routinely, maybe that you don't, you didn't necessarily intend to have pop up. What, what would those be?
[00:26:30] Katherine Grant: Yeah, I've definitely noticed, I think, writing Northfield Hall in particular, which is a place that's full of people, Who are seeking refuge from the social strata.
I tend to write characters who don't quite belong or don't have a strong community that they belong to. And then kind of the foil to that is seeing them find community at Northfield Hall. So that has kind of been a theme which is interesting. It's, I love writing Northfield Hall, but like I would never want to live there.
So, so that's an interesting tension for me.
[00:27:10] Sarah: So it's interesting to hear you talk about the, the historical examples that are pretty similar to Northfield Hall or to the Preston's experiment. Because as Not historian historical romance reader, it feels very different from everything else. And in some ways it almost feels
a little bit
like alternate history.
You know, and the alternate history is adjacent to my actual favorite genre of, of books, which I know, shocking historical romance is not my absolute favorite genre, but my favorite genre is like romantasy, I guess is what we're calling it these days. I used to call it vaginal fantasy because of a book club that Felicia Day created over 10 years ago, no longer running it, but I know that you don't really.
You're, you're much less into the romantasy than I am. So while you're very much not in that genre I do feel like there are fantastical elements to every historical romance and potentially, especially in yours from the writing perspective of having to build a world that's different from what most readers might know. So I was just curious if you
see any parallels or
if there's any way that you like know you're drawing on those sort of.
not historical romance, pop culture touch points as you're creating your stories.
[00:28:39] Katherine Grant: Yeah, I think like you said, historical romance and fantasy and sci fi and anything that's not contemporary, but even contemporary, whatever, everything, you have to do some world building. Historical romance, you can't assume that your readers will know what you're talking about the way that contemporary writer might.
And so you really have to build a lot of it. And a lot of Regency readers enter a Regency romance. with a fair amount of basic knowledge. But at the same time, if you're relying on that, for example, in my first few books, I would just write about the Ton and I would send it to our mother who was helping me with some edits and she'd be like, what's the Ton?
And so then it was like, well, how much do I world build for someone who's picking up a historical romance for the first time versus do I just write for the genre that people understand? And I think yeah. Like you said, the Preston's is so different that now I have a lot of world building within this world that we think we already know to do which I enjoy.
I think that's kind of fun. If
[00:29:48] Sarah: you enjoy world building, are you ever going to branch into my favorite genre, romantasy?
[00:29:54] Katherine Grant: I really enjoy doing the historical research and then translating it into this world. So like, I'm not creating the world. I'm researching it and then I'm like, ooh, what can I do with that? I was literally just thinking about this the other day. Whereas fantasy, you have to like come up with all these rules yourself and you have to like think about You have to create everything from zero.
I prefer to take what's out there, which is an incredible plethora that I'm never going to be able to actually know everything about and say, Oh, these are the interesting things that I want to filter into my fiction. And then I want to add a couple of interesting things from my own imagination.
[00:30:34] Sarah: Well you might like paranormal fantasy then because that's building on our current world and adding in a few fantastical
[00:30:41] Katherine Grant: elements.
I
know but like you have to remember like who can do magic and why they can do magic and I just think I'd get something wrong.
[00:30:51] Sarah: Fair enough.
[00:30:52] Katherine Grant: But I will tell you I think if I ever were to do that, it would be in the vein of like you know, princesses with fairy godmothers.
[00:30:59] Sarah: Fair enough. Well, that's not surprising because that was your first ever book.
So yes.
[00:31:05] Katherine Grant: And that, that is, I started with romantasy. You did.
[00:31:08] Sarah: You did start with romantasy. Maybe I'll blame you for my love of romantasy. Yes.
[00:31:13] Katherine Grant: Yeah. Yeah. And my second, I did write it. I don't know if you remember this, but you know, I did the Ella Enchanted one and then I wrote a sequel to it. That was, I do remember.
Okay. I don't really remember what it was about, but they were married and that one was definitely heavier on the like fantasy conflict of some sort. Probably there was no real plot, but that one was, was strongly fantasy, more strongly fantasy. And then I think I was like, no, that's too much work.
And then I think the next book I wrote was just like a contemporary.
[00:31:47] Sarah: Yeah, I don't remember what the sequel was about. I feel like. The prince was was turned out to be not very nice or something.
[00:31:55] Katherine Grant: I definitely wouldn't have ruined their marriage, but it's possible that he did something wrong. Maybe, you know, yeah, or like
[00:32:03] Sarah: he got possessed or something. I don't know.
That's possible. That's possible. Probably not right,
[00:32:07] Katherine Grant: but I do feel like he was like sent away or something.
[00:32:10] Sarah: Yeah, he, he didn't play
[00:32:11] Katherine Grant: a major role in the book. I agree. Yeah. But then also, do you remember my book, Page of a Book? I do, yeah, that was That one was heavily, like, historical romance, except for I was just pulling on, like, what I understood the historical realm to be, and there was no research behind it.
[00:32:28] Sarah: Correct. I think I have that printed out somewhere.
[00:32:32] Katherine Grant: Well, don't share it with the internet!
[00:32:33] Sarah: I think I literally have that. I think it's a printed out copy from the printer that you handed me. Yeah.
Anyway. Back to the
interview.
[00:32:45] Katherine Grant: I wonder how much of that you're going to keep in the pod.
I don't know!
[00:32:49] Sarah: Yeah, so a lot of what we're talking about with regard to, you know, the fantasy parallels or coming up with things all relies on creativity. And so I'm a scientist. Not everybody realizes that being a scientist requires a lot of creativity, and it requires a lot of different types of creativity.
We have to come up with any new ideas. We have to come up with ways to test the ideas. We have to figure out ways to convince people to give us money to go about testing those ideas. And It also requires a lot of writing. So I know that there's different types of creativity and different ways that you can use creativity, I suppose, in, in your work.
So I wondered if you could talk about the types of creativity that you feel like you need use the most in your when you're writing and how they kind of manifest And I guess to some extent your relationship with it as a as a writer. So like I don't I don't enjoy all of the I don't I have different levels of enjoyment of the different creative avenues in my work, and I imagine the same might be true for you.
[00:33:58] Katherine Grant: Yeah, that's an interesting question. I think when I think about the writing part of my day. I'm a writer who generally I try to do some outlining and character development before I start writing. And that's really fun, because it's like, you're starting from zero, but also there are like, no real stakes, like, you can always change your mind.
So, I really enjoy getting into who's the character, like, basics, like, what do they look like, who's their family, who are their best friends, like, that sort of thing. development and then thinking about some of the key scenes. Usually that's not something that I have to like force so much as it's coming to me.
And then at a certain point I'm like, oh, I can't find out anything else until I start writing. My relationship to the writing process kind of depends on the day. I sometimes really love drafting and sometimes it's the absolute worst thing. I sometimes really love editing and sometimes it's the worst thing.
I don't really think of them as separate creative processes. They are all, drafting is like, Kind of like, you know, a sculptor with a marble block and you're just chipping away and you're trying to see, wait, what am I going to build here, except it's the opposite where there's nothing and then you're adding things to it.
And I will say. The scenes that are easy to write are when the characters, I mean, the romantic interests are on the page together. And the scenes that are hard to write are when that's not the main engine, which is why I ended up writing romance. I hate writing anything else. And then I think editing is when I can more often see the patterns or get editing is when I get deeper into the character's heads.
I'm not just like, what's happening. I'm saying, why is this happening? And I, I kind of get deeper and I've, I think I've been learning to get a little bit more angsty because I am getting more into the subconscious reasons why a character is doing something. And so that's, I think, a different type of creativity that is also enjoyable.
[00:36:07] Sarah: Yeah. Yeah. And so
you mentioned that some days you like one and other days you hate it.
I know for a fact that writing often comes with those moments where everything sucks and it's the last thing you want to do. But you actually just have to power through it. So what are some of your strategies that you use to power through those?
[00:36:28] Katherine Grant: Yeah, Sometimes, it is a question of asking myself, why is it being so tough? Is it because I am stuck writing characters in not, not being together? And why am I doing that? Sometimes it is stepping away, literally getting up and walking across the room, sometimes just like releases whatever solution that was in my subconscious.
It's like, oh, duh, you should be doing this instead. Sometimes it is setting smaller goals. Like, Oh, normally I'm trying to write a thousand to 1500 words a day. And sometimes I'll be like, I'm just going to write 500 words and see if I can write 500 words later. And then normally by the time I get to 500 words, I'm like on a roll.
And so then I can get there. Sometimes it's saying, Oh, I'm going to give myself 10 minutes and see how many words I can get out. So I try a lot of different things. I think the biggest thing is like, listening to my subconscious, I know my creativity comes in flows. So like, earlier this week, I had a day where I wrote 4, 200 words.
They just were flowing. I was like, I've got to go to the bathroom, but I also need to keep writing. And I was just, in the zone. Wow. And then the next day I was like, I am depleted. I know what comes next. I don't mind writing it, but I'm just, you know, it's just, I don't have that energy. And so sometimes I just need to accept my process.
Not everyone needs to write a certain amount every day. Creativity is not like it's not part of machinery. But sometimes also like the day that I felt depleted, I was like, okay, I'm going to lower my goal, but I'm still going to get some words on the page. And that's because, you know, I have to hit deadlines.
But then like, for example, on weekends, I try really hard to honor my weekend because that is going to be refilling my well of creativity.
[00:38:22] Sarah: Yeah, absolutely. Those are all great strategies. The
ones that I give my, the recommendations I give my research
students who also have to meet deadlines.
I recommend the Pomodoro method, which is And you set a timer for like 25 minutes, and you only write for 25 minutes, but the writing can be jotting down notes, outlining, actually writing paragraphs and sentences, or editing, or whatever, but you're doing your writing task for that 25 minutes, then you take a five minute break, and then repeat, and then after like three or four of them, you take a longer break.
So that's my number one that I recommend for them.
[00:39:01] Katherine Grant: My therapist told me something interesting, which was that she had to do in her therapy master's degree or whatever. They had to do an exercise where they had to write about. their process about writing. So like they were writing an essay that was like, right now I hate the idea of writing.
Why do I hate the idea of writing? Something along those lines to really confront it. And I haven't done that exercise because I'm not a master's in therapy, but I have thought about that. And I have realized that a lot of times when I am just like, Oh, I hate this. Like I feel like a physical pain coming in my head means I'm on the brink
of figuring out what is going to happen and I have to sit and go through that and not run away from it.
[00:39:46] Sarah: Interesting. I often start my writing times with a three to five minute writing dump where I open up a document that I do not save that is just me writing. Usually this sucks. This is the absolute worst.
I don't know why I have to write. I just want to do science and I have no motivation to do this at all, but I must do it and other garbage. And then I delete it.
[00:40:14] Katherine Grant: That's so interesting.
[00:40:16] Sarah: And after the three to five minutes of writing dump, I'm ready to get going. Nice. That's a great idea. Usually by the end of it, usually by the end of it, I started like actually putting down bullet points of what I need to get done during that writing session even because I've gotten around the, the anger at having to do it and just like gotten into the planning mode.
[00:40:37] Katherine Grant: That's interesting. I think creative writers We feel that, like, I don't want to do this, and then it triggers a lot of existential, but I, this is what I want to do. I'm like, I literally want to write this novel, but I don't want to write. Does that mean that I'm not a writer? Does that mean I shouldn't be doing this?
We all feel that way, but I think it triggers this like big bigger, like, is this really what I'm supposed to be doing? Which is a lot to confront when you're just trying to get through a thousand words.
[00:41:04] Sarah: Fair enough.
I'll
have one more question for you, I guess. And it actually emerges, it's not one I prepared it's one that's emerging from the conversation.
So how do you feel that finding that sense of community, and it's obviously important to the characters in your novels, how do you feel like that relates to your own life and your own perhaps writing practice if you don't want to get too personal?
[00:41:31] Katherine Grant: That's a great question. It is important to my characters.
It's partly because of the world that I have built, and also partly because I think in the romance genre we want to see people living happily ever after, and that usually doesn't mean just with one person, like you have your one person, or polyamorous people, but then a happy life is being plugged into a bigger community.
How that relates to my life is something that I. I think about a lot. I think I'm still on my journey of not finding my community, but defining community for myself. You know, as I mentioned, we moved around growing up. So I think the most stable community that we had was our little nuclear family of five.
Now you live in New Zealand. I live in New York City. Our brother lives in Chicago and our parents live in Tennessee, so we are in touch with each other, but I wouldn't say that we have a traditional sense of community because we don't see each other all that much. I moved to New York City knowing five people, not Knowing five people
well, just I knew five people. And so I have built a community here over the past 10 years. Mostly I have co opted my husband's friends because he is from here. But that's one.
[00:42:54] Sarah: That's one. That's one benefit of having a husband is they come with friends. Yes.
[00:42:58] Katherine Grant: If they don't come with friends, don't marry them.
[00:43:00] Sarah: Yeah, exactly. It's like a woman with a dowry. You don't want
[00:43:04] Katherine Grant: one if she doesn't have one. So, yeah, I think I'm on a lifelong expedition to discover what community means to me and sometimes I long for a closer knit community and sometimes I am already overwhelmed by the people in my life and I'm like, I don't want to talk to you.
Let's stay indoors for three days and not talk to anybody.
[00:43:26] Sarah: Yeah. Yeah. Well, it seems to me that you're working towards building a community of other authors by creating this podcast and interviewing.
[00:43:34] Katherine Grant: That's a great point. Yes. A
[00:43:35] Sarah: large number of people who are in your field.
[00:43:41] Katherine Grant: It is one of my goals with this podcast is to meet other romance authors and connect with them and build a community.
Luckily it will be virtual, so I don't have to see them if I don't want to. But yeah, I do hope that there's a fun community that comes out of this.
[00:43:58] Sarah: I think virtual communities are great. And I think it's one of the best things especially about the pandemic, but in general that the internet age has brought is the ability to find like minded individuals, even if they don't live in the same place as you.
[00:44:12] Katherine Grant: Yes. And to keep in touch with sisters who live on the opposite side of the world. That's right. That's correct. All right. Well, this brings us to our final segment.
Do you love it or leave it?
[00:44:29] Sarah: Okay, so do you love it or leave it? Protagonists meet in the first 10%.
[00:44:35] Katherine Grant: I love it. If you haven't met your protagonists, like if you haven't met your love interest in the first 10%, Like, what am I reading for?
[00:44:45] Sarah: Good point. Dual point of view narration.
[00:44:48] Katherine Grant: I love a dual point of view narration. I've read some romances where you're only in the woman's head. It always seems to be just the woman's head. And I'm always like, I want to know what he's thinking. Like part of the fun is the dramatic irony.
Of knowing that one character thinks this and the other character thinks that. Like, that's just really fun.
[00:45:07] Sarah: It is really fun. I'm reading a paranormal romance series at the moment, and it's all from the woman's point of view, but the authors put in
at the back of
some of the books, like one of the key, one of the key scenes from the book from the guy's perspective, just as like a fun counterpoint.
And it's entertaining anyway. Yeah. Do you love it or leave it? Third person past tense.
[00:45:32] Katherine Grant: It's a convention, and I had never written third person past tense until I started writing historical romance. I enjoy it, but sometimes I long to write in first person.
[00:45:42] Sarah: Never second person, though. That's the funny thing.
[00:45:45] Katherine Grant: Joyce Carol Oates has a short story in second person, and it's a lot.
[00:45:49] Sarah: Third act breakup or dark moment?
[00:45:52] Katherine Grant: I actually do enjoy a third act breakup when it is earned.
I think it helps us see that the characters can work together and overcome obstacles. But I think a lot of times it's not earned.
[00:46:08] Sarah: Yeah, I don't like it for the sake of it just existing, but I absolutely agree with you.
Love it or leave it, always end with an epilogue.
[00:46:17] Katherine Grant: Love it. Share research Sometimes I have two epilogues.
[00:46:22] Sarah: That's just wild.
Do you love it or leave it? Share research in the author's note.
[00:46:28] Katherine Grant: I do love research in the author's note. I have personally moved my research, the bulk of it, out of the author's note because there's too much to explain and the author's note gets longer than the rest of the book. And so now I'm a fan of the research being pointed to in the author's note.
Because now when I read other people's author's notes, I'm often like, oh, but there's probably more to that. And then I can go down my rabbit holes.
[00:46:54] Sarah: Nice. And of course you share your research with all of your newsletter subscribers.
[00:46:59] Katherine Grant: Yes. That's right. Thanks for the plug. Yes. And it's free, so all you have to do is sign up.
[00:47:05] Sarah: And if you sign up, do you get a free short story?
[00:47:07] Katherine Grant: Yeah, you get free books. You can get The Spinster, which is only available to my newsletter subscribers.
[00:47:14] Sarah: Ah, well, so Katherine, this has been a wonderful interview. I've enjoyed asking you questions and getting your answers. Before we sign off for the week, can you tell everybody where they can find out more about you if they haven't already looked you up after listening to this podcast.
[00:47:32] Katherine Grant: Thank you. First of all, you've done a great job. Thank you so much for interviewing me. I am available many places. My home base is katherinegrantromance. com, which is where you can sign up for the newsletter. And I'm also on Instagram, TikTok, facebook, Goodreads, BookBub and all those links are in the show notes.
And there's also a promo code in the show notes to get the first book in the Prestons free. Normally it's 3. 99, and you can get it for free with the promo code, so check that out. And please read The Sailor Without a Sweetheart, which is now available in e book and paperback.
[00:48:08] Sarah: Woo hoo. Ooh, paperback. That's exciting.
[00:48:11] Katherine Grant: Yes, I owe you paperbacks.
[00:48:13] Sarah: They can join my other paperbacks. Yay!
Which happened to be right here.
All right, well that's it for this week. Check out the show notes where Katherine
will put links for her work and the podcast. Until next week, happy reading!