This podcast is a proud affiliate of Libro.fm. By clicking on this banner, we may earn a proceed of any purchases you make, in which case, we thank you very much!
Kate Bateman Samples The Second Duke's The Charm
Katherine Grant: Welcome to the Historical Romance Sampler Podcast. The place for you to find new historical romance books and authors to fan over. I'm award winning historical romance author Katherine Grant, and each week I'm inviting fellow authors to come on and share a little bit of their work and themselves.
They'll read a sample of one of their books, and then I'm going to ask them a bunch of questions. By the end of the episode, you'll have a sense of what they write and who they are. Hopefully, you and I both will have something new to read. So what are we waiting for? Let's get into this week's episode.
I am so excited to be joined today by Kate Bateman, a best selling author who I've had the opportunity to collaborate with before. Kate is the best selling author of thrilling historical romances, including the Secrets and Spies series, Bow Street Bachelors series, Ruthless Rivals series, Her Majesty's Rebels series, and a collaboration series With me on the Scandals and Scoundrels of Drury Lane.
Kate's books have received multiple starred reviews from Publishers Weekly and Library Journal and have been translated into multiple languages. Her renaissance romp, The Devil to Pay, was a 2019 Rita finalist for Historical Romance. Kate is also an antiques expert, auctioneer, and fine art appraiser, the co founder and director of Bateman's Auctioneers, a fine art and antiques auction house.
After 12 years of living in the United States, she is now back in her native England with her husband, three inexhaustible children, and a naughty toy poodle named Monty. Welcome, Kate!
Kate Bateman: Hello, thank you for having me. Monty may make an appearance at some point in the background, I would suspect. We're gonna keep our eyes peeled.
Katherine Grant: I'm so excited to have the chance to talk to you today, and I know you're reading the second Duke's The Charm, the start of your new series.
Kate Bateman: Yes, this is the first book in my series. So it's not my latest one out. My latest one out is the second, which is How to Fall for Scandal. But I figured if people are new to the Her Majesty's Rebel series, I would read the prologue, which kind of sets up the whole series.
And it's quite a funny opening scene that makes me laugh. So I thought I would share that with everybody today.
Katherine Grant: That's awesome. I'm excited to hear it.
Kate Bateman: Prologue. Spring, 1814. Tess Townsend was accustomed to men falling at her feet metaphorically, but this was the first time one had ever done it literally. And on her wedding night, no less. The decrepit Duke of Wansford, her husband of Leicester the day, lay prone on the rug, but unlike many new bridegrooms, he was not drunk.
He was dead. When he'd entered Tessa's bedroom ten minutes ago, the lascivious look he'd cast at her had turned her stomach. She'd just opened her mouth to tell him to go away, when he'd clutched at his chest with an expression of faint surprise. He'd staggered sideways, knocked over a table, and dropped to the ground like a stone.
Despite a dislike of the man, Tess had instinctively rushed forward to help, but instead of lurching to his feet or taking the opportunity to grope her, he'd simply lain there, eyes closed, limbs slack. With a growing sense of alarm, Tess had shaken him, then slapped his cheek. Belatedly realising she couldn't recall his Christian name from the ceremony, she'd hissed, "Wake up, you!"
and pressed her fingers to his neck in search of a pulse. To no avail. He was definitely dead. A wave of incredulous relief rose in her chest, swiftly followed by guilt. She'd prayed for a miracle to save her from this dreadful marriage, but she'd never envisaged anything as drastic as this. Indeed, when nothing had happened that morning to interrupt her vows, she'd taken matters into her own hands and placed a loaded pistol beneath her pillow.
Her father might have forced her to the altar, but Tess had no intention of allowing the lecherous old duke his husbandly rights. She'd half hoped that if she threatened to shoot him, he'd demand an annulment on the grounds of her insanity. Better to be considered mad for the rest of her life than submit to his repellent touch.
Whether such a plan would have been successful was now a moot point. The man wasn't in any state to demand anything ever again. An insistent pounding on the bedroom door made Tess start, until she remembered the desperate plea she'd issued to her two best friends. Ellie Law and Daisy Hamilton had sworn to do everything in their power to save her from the unwelcome attentions of her new husband.
The three of them had met at Miss Honoria Burnett's Ladies Academy as children, and as far as Tess was concerned, they were far more her family than the father who treated her so shabbily. "Your Grace, you must come!" Ellie's urgent voice was muffled by the heavy wooden door. She defected an accent to sound like one of the servants.
"The dower house is ablaze!" Tess stumbled to the door and swung it right. With a frantic look up and down the corridor, she seized both girls by the arm and hauled them inside. "Quick, before someone comes!" She slid the bolt behind them. "Are we too early?" Confused, Daisy glanced at the door connecting the Duchess's room to the Master's suite.
"Is the Duke still in his room?" "No, he's there." Tess pointed at the body on the floor, half obscured by a winged armchair. Ellie stepped sideways to get a better view, then sucked in a breath. "Oh, bloody hell. Tess, what did you do?" "I didn't do anything, I swear. He came in, leered at me and collapsed." "He's not breathing."
Daisy, always the most practical of the three of them, knelt and put her ear to the duke's scorny chest. After a tense moment, she sat back on her heels with a sigh that was more irritation than dismay. "She's right, he's dead." She sent Tess a wry glance. "Considering how fetching you look in that robe, my love, I'd say it's no surprise."
Tess bit her lip. A lifetime of comments had made her aware that most people considered her beautiful. With dark eyes, pale skin, and lustrous hair, she'd lost count of the number of times she'd been compared to a Renaissance masterpiece or an ancient Greek deity. She supposed she must take after the mother who died when she was a baby because she bore only a passing resemblance to the dissolute scoundrel that was her father.
Guilt tightened her chest even more. The Duke was, had been, awful, but the thought that she might have caused his demise, or the demise of another human being, even inadvertently was unsettling. "You think I killed him?" Ellie snorted. "Of course not. His own lechery killed him. A man of 72 has no business wedding a girl of 19.
His shriveled heart probably gave out from all the excitement. Serves him right." Daisy grimaced. "He didn't touch you, did he?" "Thankfully not." Tess shuddered at the thought of the man's papery skin and rancid breath. She truly had a miraculous escape. Daisy rose to her feet and dusted off her skirts as Tess sank weakly onto the edge of the bed.
"Oh god, you think people are going to think I killed him?" She shot a glance over her shoulder. "Daisy, your pistols are under my pillow. I was going to threaten him with it if he tried to force himself on me." Daisy gave an approving nod. "Excellent plan." She rounded the bed, slipped her hand beneath the linen, and withdrew the pistol.
With the ease of long practice, she unloaded the weapon and slid it into her skirts. The mattress sagged as she sat down next to Tess, and Ellie crossed to sit on her opposite side. All three of them gazed down at the corpse. The Duke's lined face was pale and waxy, and the powdered wig he'd worn to hide his thinning hair lay on the expensive rug like a small, furry creature that had fallen from a great height.
"We need to think this through," Ellie said levelly. "It's quite possible that you'll be suspected of killing him. After all, it was no secret that your father forced you to say your vows." Tess grimaced. Her father had, for all intents and purposes, sold her to the Duke. Her family had been wealthy once, but a series of bad investments, a disastrous loan to Mad King George that had never been repaid, and her father's drinking and gaming had squandered what they'd had.
Tess's childish hope of marrying for love had earned her a scornful laugh from her father. Her pretty face was his ticket to a fortune. When the twice widowed Duke of Wandsworth's roving eye had fallen on her during her first London season, her father had jumped at the chance to offer her up as an unwilling bride.
None of her other suitors could match the dual enticements of a title and a fortune, so Tess's objections had been soundly ignored. Her attempts to escape had been foiled, and she'd spent the week leading up to her wedding locked in her room or under her father's inescapable gaze. "You obviously didn't shoot him," Daisy said, breaking into Tess's bitter thoughts.
"Or strangle him. There aren't any visible injuries. Could have poisoned him, I suppose." Tess groaned. "As soon as the servants realise he's dead, the whole house is going to be an uproar. If they find you two here, they might even think you planned it together." "The first thing anyone will do is call the doctor," Daisy said reasonably.
"If he suspects there's been foul play, then the magistrate will be called, and he'll start an official investigation." "But he's not going to suspect anything," Ellie said, "because you've done nothing wrong. The Duke clearly died of natural causes." Daisy pointed at the body. "I can't think with him just lying there.
We need to put him back in his own room, so everyone will think he died in his own bed." Tess nodded. "Agreed." The three of them stood. Ellie tilted her head. "How, do you suppose? Never had to deal with a corpse before." "It can't be that different from moving a drunkard," Tess said. "Heaven knows I've done that enough times with my father.
Ellie, you grab his arms. Daisy, you and I can take his feet." "Good lord, he's heavy," Daisy groaned as the three of them hefted the Duke's lifeless body. His head rolled forward so his chin rested on his chest. "Who'd have thought someone so spindly could weigh so much?" Ellie panted. "He's like a sack of potatoes."
"When have you ever carried a sack of potatoes?" Daisy scoffed. "Well, never, but this is exactly how heavy I'd expect one to be." With faltering steps, they staggered through the doorway and into the sitting room that separated the Duke's room from the Duchess's quarters. When they finally reached the Duke's bedchamber, they deposited him on the covers with a universal sigh of relief.
Tess wrinkled her nose. "We need to take this robe off." The duke had appeared in her room in a voluminous pea green striped banyan, his skinny legs protruding from the hem like two pale sticks of rhubarb. "I have a horrible feeling he's not wearing anything underneath. Look, that's his nightgown." Daisy indicated a square of linen folded on the pillow, and Tess quelled an instinctive shudder.
"It has to be done." With a fortifying breath. She edged the Duke's arm outta the sleeve, the front of the road slid open, exposing his entire naked body and granting the three of them, the unwelcome sight of his flacid, member lying limply between his legs amid a tangle of sparse gray hair. Daisy leapt back with a gagging sound.
"My eyes. I'm never gonna be able to unsee this as long as I live!" "Far be it from me to speak ill of the dead. And he said, but can I just say how unfair it is that this is the first man I've ever seen naked. Couldn't we have found a handsome prize fighter in an alley? Nursed a wounded soldier back to health?"
Daisy snorted. "You read too many novels, Elinor." She angled her chin toward the Duke's groin. "Real life is clearly a badly stubbed sausage." "I should put that on a sampler," Ellie laughed. Together they wrestled the Duke into his nightgown and maneuvered him until he lay in the bed, covers pulled up to his chin, his hands resting peacefully on his chest.
Tess stood back with a satisfied nod. "That'll do." Ellie placed the Duke's wig carefully on the stand in the corner, and Tess folded his banyan and laid it over the chair. Back in Tess's room, Daisy righted the table that the Duke had knocked over, then turned towards the bed, but the sound of footsteps approaching along the corridor had all three of them glancing around in panic.
Daisy, wide eyed, darted around the bed, pulling Ellie down beside her to hide. Tess froze as a tentative knock came on the door. "Yes?" Her voice heard an alarming quiver. "Your Grace, it's Hannah. Mrs. Jennings sent me to see if you'd like a bath." The servant'stone was soft with a trace of pity. Tess had seen the commiserating looks the girl had given her when she brushed out her hair in preparation for the Duke's visit earlier.
At the time, Tess had felt as if she were being readied for the guillotine, or like Andromeda, about to be chained to the rocks as a sacrifice for some hideous sea monster. Only unlike Andromeda, there would be no heroic Perseus coming to rescue her. Tess was going to have to save herself. Hence the pistol.
She closed her throat and aimed for a normal tone. " No thank you, Hannah. I'm tired this evening. His Grace has just retired to his own rooms." She gave an internal wince at the suggestive inference of those words. "I'll have a bath in the morning." Her heart pounded as she waited for the servant's response.
"Very good, your Grace. Is there anything else I can get for you? No, thank you, I'll see you tomorrow." Tess expelled a huff of relief as the girl's footsteps retreated and she turned to see Ellie and Daisy emerging from their hiding place. "When one of the servants finds him in the morning, you can act surprised and dismayed," Ellie whispered.
"You can say quite truthfully that the last time you saw him alive was when he came here tonight. You certainly don't have to mention that the last time you actually saw him, he was dead." Daisy sent her an admiring grin. "You have a fiendish mind, Ellie Law." Ellie bobbed a mocking curtsy. "Why, thank you."
"Wait," Daisy said, turning back to Tess. "If you and the Duke never did the deed, is the marriage even legal? What if his relatives find out and try and get it annulled?" Tess sank onto a chair with a groan. "I'll be sent back to my father who'll probably try to marry me off to some other horrible rich old man now he's got the idea."
Ellie shook her head. "That's not going to happen. Non consummation is not a legal reason for an annulment. As long as the marriage itself was valid, with the right names and witnesses and everything, then you're the Duchess of Wansford, whether you're a virgin or not." Tess's anxiety ebbed a fraction.
Ellie definitely knew what she was talking about when it came to legal matters. Her father was Sir Edward Law, Baron Ellenborough, one of England's top barristers. He'd been Attorney General of England and Wales and was now Lord Chief Justice. Ellie had inherited her father's love of the law and his brilliant incisive mind.
Only the fact that she'd been born a female had stopped her from becoming a barrister herself. "So where does this leave me?" Tess frowned. Daisy flopped wastefully onto the bed. "As the envy of every woman in England, that's where, a widow duchess with all the benefits of the position and none of the aggravation of a husband."
"But my father-" "can't force you to do anything ever again," Ellie finished with a smile. "In the eyes of the law, you're independent. Your father has no right to control what you do. And with no husband to bully you. You're free, Tess!" A heady rush of excitement filled Tess's chest, but it was immediately quashed by her next thought.
"I don't have any money of my own. Father didn't even provide me with a dowry. The Duke paid him 2, 000." "There should have been provision for you in the marriage settlement," Ellie said. "A widow's jointure? Did you not read it?" Tess nodded. "Oh, I'd forgotten about that. Yes, I think I get a lifetime use of the dower house."
"It's not actually on fire, by the way," Daisy grinned. "We just said that to get you out of here." "I gathered that." "You should get financial support as well," Ellie pressed, "like rent from some of the Duke's properties. The standard percentage is a third of the estate, but even if you only get a fraction of the Duchy's income, you'll still be better off than with your father."
Hope blossomed anew. "There was definitely something about rent in there, but I don't remember the particulars. I was too disgusted with my family to pay much attention." Ellie gave a satisfied smile. "It's going to be all right. The Duchy earns more than enough to support you. You deserve this, Tess. You said your vows, it's the Duke's misfortune that he didn't live long enough to enjoy it."
Daisy wrinkled her nose, a sure sign that she was thinking. "Even if this marriage doesn't have to be consummated, it wouldn't be a bad idea to let everyone assume the Duke bedded you." She held up her hand to stave off Tess's instinctive protest. "It will buy you some time before you have to deal with the next Duke, because the executors will have to wait a few months to make sure you're not carrying an heir.
When it becomes clear that you're not, then they'll go and find whoever's next in line to inherit." "That's not a terrible idea," Ellie agreed. "In fact," Daisy continued warming to her theme, "you could always try and get pregnant quick and tell everyone it's the dukes, that would really cement the position."
Tess gasped, half amused, half appalled by her friend's flippant suggestion. "I'm not against having children someday, but I'm not that desperate. And besides, how would I go about it? Pounce on the first drunkard I see outside the dog and duck and beg him to make love to me?" "You wouldn't have to beg anyone," Daisy's sent her a playful grin.
"They'd be lining up and thanking their lucky stars. But men in their cups aren't known for giving the best performance, so to speak. You'd be better hiring a professional." Tess frowned. "A professional man? What do you mean?" " a male whore," Daisy said matter of factly. "I've heard of people talking about them at my father's parties."
Officially, Daisy's father was the dissolute Duke of Dalkeith, but it was an open secret in the ton that her real sire was an Italian count with whom her mother had conducted a torrid and very public affair. "I know there exists two," Ellie nodded sagely, "male prostitutes that is. My father called one as a witness in a case he prosecuted last year.
I read about it in his notes." Tess threw up her hands. "We're not hiring a man to lie with me, that's ridiculous. Not to mention expensive, at least I expect it would be." Daisy shrugged. "It was just a thought." She pulled back the covers and gestured to Tess. "Come on, get in, we'll stay with you tonight.
We'll leave before dawn so we're not seen." "Won't you be missed at Hollyfield?" daisy's father owned the neighbouring estate on the far side of the village. Daisy snorted. "Unlikely. Father's hosting a hunting party, which means everyone will be foxed. He thinks Ellie and I are both safely tucked up in bed.
We won't be expected down before breakfast at the earliest." "How did you get here?" "Oh, we left our horses in that empty cottage by the spinny. Then we sneaked into the tradesman's entrance while the staff were all having dinner. They were all gossiping about you." Tess made a face. "They probably think I'm a scheming harpy who only married the duke for his money."
"They do indeed, because there's no other reason anyone would have married him. It's not like he was handsome, or young, or even charming." "Perhaps that's why fate's giving you a second chance," Ellie mused. A glowing excitement swelled in Tessie's chest as the reality of her situation finally began to sink in.
For the first time in her life, she didn't have to answer to anyone. English law usually decreed that a woman pass directly from her husband's control to that of her husband, from her father's control to that of her husband. They were little better than chattel, to exert any authority over their lives or finances.
But fate had granted her an astonishing reprieve. Widowhood, combined with a modest income, would mean blissful independence. A chance to do something with her life, something interesting, something worthwhile. "Think of all the things you can do now you're a Duchess," Ellie murmured, almost as if reading her thoughts.
"You could start a charity," Daisy suggested. "Isn't that what rich widows do? Open a hospital for orphaned puppies, wounded veterans, and fallen women?" "All in the same building," Tess teased, "wouldn't the soldiers trip over the puppies?" "And wouldn't the harlots fall onto the veterans?" Ellie chuckled. "Wouldn't be the worst thing," Daisy shrugged.
"In fact, it's a brilliant idea now I think about it. Flirting with women and playing with dogs are both excellent reasons for the veterans to recover. I bet our rehabilitation rates would be incredible." Tess shook her head. "You are absurd." "But brilliant," Daisy grinned, "Admit it." "Yes, that too." Tess pteaded the sheets as determination unfurled inside her.
"I've spent 19 years being told what to do, with no control over my own fate, and I never want to feel that way again. From now on, I'm going to do what makes me happy, not what pleases someone else." "Bravo," Daisy clapped. "But," Tess continued, " think of all the women who can't choose.
We know scores of girls who've been bullied and manipulated by the men in their lives. What if I use my new position to help those who haven't been so lucky?" Daisy raised her brows. "It's a nice idea, but you'd have to be discreet." "We'd have to be discreet," Tess amended. "I couldn't do anything without the two of you."
Ellie's eyes sparkled with excitement at the prospect of a new challenge. "We do make an excellent team, and you know how much I like justice."
"And you know how much I like annoying men," Daisy added. Tess smiled at her two best friends, grateful beyond words to have them in her life. "So this plan has something for everyone.
Are you with me?" Neither Ellie nor Daisy hesitated for a moment. "Absolutely." So there we go. That's how King Co, London's premier investigative and private company gets started. And it's basically, the premise is kind of like Charlie's Angels in the Regency. Tess, Ellie and Daisy pretend that they work for Charles King, who is the head of King Co, but he's a fictional boss.
He doesn't exist. They all pretend that he's their boss and they do all the work and get all the glory. Well, get all, secretly get the glory. They get all the money. So,
I
Katherine Grant: love that. That's so awesome. Well, I have a lot of questions for you, but first we're going to take a break for our sponsors.
The Historical Romance Sampler podcast is a proud affiliate of libro. fm
libro. fm is a really cool audiobook retailer that offers the same selection of audiobooks at the same price that you would find at that other really big audiobook retailer. But instead of sending your money to a giant monopoly, your money with your purchase of Libro.
fm audiobooks goes back to the local bookstore of your choice. That way you can purchase audiobooks but still support your local literary community.
Also Cool is their Kiss Club, which features romance audiobooks on sale every month.
If you're ready to sign up for Libro.Fm, I've got a good deal for you.
Using the code HISTORICAL, as in Historical Romance Sampler, sign up for a new membership and get three audiobooks for the price of one.
Check out the link in my show notes if you want more information. And now, back to the episode.
Katherine Grant: All right, so I am back with Kate Bateman, who just read a sample, the prologue, from Second Duke's The Charm, which was a very fun setup to your new series, which you said is very Charlie's Angels based.
And something I noticed about your work in general is there's always a strong element of, like, adventure to it. So I'm curious for you in the romance, when you think about a romance novel is adventure what calls you to it in equal parts?
Kate Bateman: Yeah, I mean, I'm obviously a long term romance reader before I was ever a writer, like 20 years worth of reading romance not just historical romance, all that was one of my favorites, but kind of across the board, but the ones I always really liked, I was a big fan of the old school with a K, bodice ripping, you know, Joanna Lindsay's... it was escapism, pure and simple, they were just joyful, run off with a pirate, Russian prince, you know, it was just Ridiculous and, but it knew it.
It was aware of its ridiculousness and did it anyway. And I, I really love that. And when I think of all the films that I enjoy, they always have the dual, like, you know, romancing the stone, you know, you've got the adventure plus the romance. And I kind of always wanted a little bit extra. I don't like super dark.
I don't like angst. I did literature at university, and honestly, everyone, all the girls die. Like, apparently to be literature, if you're a woman in it, you have to be dead. You know, Tolstoy, you're dead, you know, Hardy, you're dead. So, that really depressed me, and so I want the girls to be alive at the end, and happy, and have a rip roaring time getting there.
So, yeah, that's, that's kind of my manifesto. I say I write badasses and bodices, and I kind of like the idea that They're getting out and doing stuff. They're not passive. They're having fun and exciting, scary times as well.
Katherine Grant: Yeah, I love that. And you write across different eras too because your Rita award winning one was Renaissance.
I've read one of your books that's set in the French Revolution. So how do you go about finding your Your era and your setting.
Kate Bateman: Well, so, ironically, the devil to pay which you mentioned that the Italian Renaissance, I had was the first book I ever wrote, or first romance book I wrote. And I knew nothing I had no intention of getting published I just...
I had read Laura Kinsale's, who had done a couple of medievals for My Lady's Heart and Shadowheart, which are dear to my heart and I love, and I sort of broked around to find something similar and couldn't find it. So they always say, well, write what you know, and I thought, okay, I'll give it a go, see if I can write
something, you know, 80, 000 words of stuff. Did. And long story short, it ended up getting an offer from Penguin Random House, who said, we love, you can clearly write, but there's no market for Italian Renaissance stuff. But will you write Regency? And I, I said, well, sure, you're Random House, I'll write anything you like.
So that's how I got started. And it was Regency. My argument is, still a little that, you know, first of all build it and they will come as in if you're not offering any other history era apart from Regency, that's all people are going to buy. So your data's going to show, oh, people only want it. I think, especially now that there are so many indies out there who are able to write any time period.
And there are so many cool periods in history that you could write. I mean, I love them all. It does seem a bit sad that we're stuck in the eight to ten period years of Regency, but there is a very strong still following for that.
And I like it. It's for me, you're right, I do do a little bit earlier into sort of end of French Revolution, but mainly Napoleonic Regency which is what, you know, 1780 to 1920, just about. And that's an interesting because I think it's far enough back for people to kind of be escapism, but not so far back that the people are so completely inexplicable to us or it's not quite so different to modern life like, I think if you go far back it's much more of a kind of leap of faith, and you have to do a lot more describing of traditions and mores and societal things.
If you go to medieval or you go even further or whatever. So, yeah. Regency, everyone kind of understands, they know what the world is like already, and you don't have to do a lot of work for that. But yeah, it's quite a nice time, everyone knows Pride and Prejudice, you're aware of that era, and you just want more of it.
Like, if you like a Starbucks, you just want another Starbucks latte, you know, there's no reason to go have anything different. If you love it, keep, keep, keep drinking it. So,
Katherine Grant: yeah.
Kate Bateman: Yeah.
Katherine Grant: Well, and, and so you also are an Antiques expert. And does your work or your research into the physical materials of antiques inform your or inspire your writing?
Kate Bateman: Yeah, all the time. I mean, that was one of the advantages and why I'm kind of drawn to historical is because I have seen literally tens of thousands of items from those periods and they're pretty normal here in the UK at least. And so I have literally worn the dresses. I have, you know, smelled the vinaigrettes.
I've seen the paintings and the furnishings and the furniture. And so I've got a really good grasp of that, that, you know, I understand it. It feels pretty accessible. And yeah, there's always stories behind stuff. Like we call it the provenance, you know, the, the history behind something, you know, but I mean, when I'm doing evaluation day and people are coming in and telling me about their stories, there's always such cool things that come up and you think, Oh, that's really, I get drawn down these weird historical rabbit holes and you end up with this thing.
That's so ridiculous, even though it's true that you think, God, that should be in a book, or that's so ridiculous. If I put that in a book, no one would believe it. Which I've done. I mean, a lot of my, my stuff has been sparked by a real historical event or something that I just thought, that's cool.
Really cool. Like, I'm gonna write that into a book. Yeah.
Katherine Grant: Oh, that's so cool.
And the objects that you come across, do they ever, do you ever work specific objects into your work?
Kate Bateman: Yeah, quite often, like maybe not the actual object, but certainly things I've seen, like a couple of months ago I saw, I'd always wanted to see one in person.
They're these tiny little, it's like the size of an orange, it's a pocket globe, but literally it was like a tiny little globe and it had like the world as they knew it in like 1820 or something, with like Captain Cook's voyages, and then they were literally, the North America was like, Parts Unknown, like they've never been to it and then Australia was like Van Diemen's Land.
I mean, it was really, really cool. And so I put that in one of my books and, you know, all kinds of stuff. Like it's amazing what sparks an idea, you know.
Katherine Grant: Yeah, and you can get so specific if you know all those tiny little things. Yeah,
Kate Bateman: yeah, yeah. That's what's really interesting.
I'm just looking at a book now. I've been researching people on the Grand Tour. And I'm reading people's diaries, who people were actually there and the little instances of stuff that you never would have thought of, but actually are so personal and immediate that you're like, that's got to go in a book .
Really cool. Yeah, because there was no health and safety that the travelers would just go up to like literally Mount Etna, a lava field, and you could get so close you just wandered up till it got too hot but they used to put to prove they'd been in sort of early like I was here, they'd get a coin and stick it in the hot lava, wait till it cooled and just take a chunk home with the coin stuck in it to like prove, "here was me close enough to stick a coin in the lava."
I mean like, I'd never even heard of that but that was such a really cool thing. Cool little nugget that was like I never would have thought of that but that is that's going in a book like I don't know Why or how but it's going in.
Katherine Grant: Well, I think it's time for us to play our game, Love It or Leave It. Okay.
Katherine Grant: So, love it or leave it, protagonists meet in the first 10 percent of the novel.
Kate Bateman: Oh, absolutely. Yeah.
Love it. They have to. I think we have less attention spans now, but I think before you could get definitely his point of view chapter, her point of view chapter, then, you know, then maybe ease into it. I think now people really expect them to meet sooner. So, yeah. I'm, I'm, I want them bumping into each other and fighting on page one.
Like, Admittedly that didn't happen. Saying that, that did not happen in my prologue, did I? I did not practice what I preach. But that was setting up the whole three book series. Normally they meet in the first chapter.
Katherine Grant: Yeah, well prologue is usually not even number, page number one. It's page number I.
Kate Bateman: Exactly. So we haven't started at chapter one, but I know technically you shouldn't really do a prologue, but I couldn't resist and I talked, talked them into it. So,
Katherine Grant: yeah, absolutely. All right. Love it or leave it. Dual point of view narration.
Kate Bateman: Oh, love it. I like it. In fact, I think certainly for historicals, I want to see what they're both thinking, because it's really interesting to see how they're seeing the same situation, but from two different points of view.
And also, it's frustrating when you don't get the hero's point of view. I think we really like to see that. And even if, you know, at the outside, he's giving absolutely nothing away, at least inside, if he's a complete mess, disaster in love with her, then we want to see that. We love that. So yeah, love it.
Katherine Grant: All right. Love it or leave it. Third person past tense.
Kate Bateman: Yeah, leave it. I think fashions have changed. I don't hate it, but at the same time, yeah, I don't write first person. I think first person reads younger, so I think lots of YA, they all expect first person, lots of contemporary.
I write third person.
I'm ambivalent to it. Let's
leave
it at that.
Katherine Grant: All right. Love it or leave it, third act, breakup or dark moment?
Kate Bateman: I would say leave it because, well, certainly for my books, I'm never good with a really big dark moment, especially the whole, it drives me nuts when the whole misunderstanding could literally be solved if they just talk to each other like grown ups. I have no patience for people that string it out for, for like, you know, three quarters of a book.
So yeah, I suppose we need a dark moment, the long dark tea time of the soul is what I call it, you know, that lost moment. But it doesn't have to be that dramatic. Mine's normally the adventure arc and the romance arc are usually at the lowest point at that point and you've just got that final get over it and win the day kind of thing.
So yeah, I would leave it in terms of really. Dramatic third act breakups.
Katherine Grant: Yeah, all right love it or leave it always ends with an epilogue
Kate Bateman: Maybe the end of a three book series. It's sometimes nice to have an epilogue. I tend to put Well, I suppose 50 50, actually, now I think about it.
Some books really, it feels like you need an epilogue for whatever reason, however you left it. I tend not to be an epilogue, like, oh, by the way, three years later they had children and they were super happy. That, because that's not necessarily what happiness looks like for a lot of people. So I like to think that, like, what else is there to say in an epilogue?
If there's something else I need to add to the story, Usually it's just the epilogue is just to tease the next couple in a series or to just give you a a hint that these guys are okay, but these two, oh no. And that's where you go to the next book. Yeah, 50 50
Katherine Grant: Yeah. All right. Love it or leave it. Share research in your author's note.
Kate Bateman: Oh, I'm so lazy. Leave it. I should. I should love it because there's so much. I tend not to do it. I don't even do author's notes usually. Normally if you follow me on social media, I just put it up there. And if I'm, as I'm researching, I'll put, Hey, this is a cool thing I've just discovered.
Or I'll, you know, when a book's just out, I will talk about the things that, Hey, did you know there really was this some break by this guy called only like whatever, but. I don't put them in the book. There'd probably be as much 80, 000 words of author's notes if I did that as the actual book. So for me, that's a leave it.
Katherine Grant: All right. And are there any other romance rules that I didn't ask about that you like to break or play with?
Kate Bateman: I don't know. Are there any rules? I don't think there are any rules. Like, you're writing the convention of a romance novel. Of course there are rules, you know, but the way, you know, we, we start here and we end up here and, you know, how we get there is the fun. And even if you gave the same plot outline to 10 different authors, you'd end up with 10 different books, which is the joy of it.
It's like a pop song. It's three minutes. That's the rules. It has to be that long. And yet, think of the variation within pop songs, right? So people are very dismissive of romance. Like, oh, it's so formulaic. Like, you know, they're going to end up happy. Yes. Yes, that's why I read it. I don't want anyone to be dead at the end.
I want them to be happy. Yeah, I want to enjoy the adventure and the ride. So that's it. That's have fun. That's a rule. That should be a rule. You feel better at the end than you did at the beginning. And if that is the case that I have done my job, even if it's, You've read it in three hours and it's taken me six months to write and then you're mad because I haven't got another book out.
I've done my job, right? So. I love that. Have fun.
Katherine Grant: I love that. Well, I have really enjoyed this conversation, Kate. It's always lovely to connect with you. Where can listeners find you and your books?
Kate Bateman: Oh, all over the place. In the usual, the usual suspects. I'm on Facebook. You can join my Badasses in Bodices, which is my Facebook group, or follow my KC Bateman or Kate Bateman Facebook page.
I love Instagram because I like visual and pretty pictures, so that's really good. I'm on there. I think I'm KC underscore Bateman on there? You'd have to, you can find me. Go to my website, www. KcBateman. com All my books are on there and all my socials. Sign up to my mailing list.
My, my newsletter is monthly ish. I don't make any guarantees. It's usually once a month. Sometimes more if I have something to say and sometimes not. Sometimes you just. Don't get anything. But that's the fun of it. So yeah, join, join my mailing list and yeah, follow me on, yeah, less on Twitter slash X.
I used to be, but yeah, it's mainly Facebook and Instagram. I hate TikTok with a passion. I, I sometimes on there if forced to be, but it's not my, not my natural media. So yeah, Instagram or Facebook is for me.
Katherine Grant: Great. I'll put your website in the show notes. People can check it out. By clicking through.
Kate Bateman: All right, thank you so much for having me. It was nice to see you.
Katherine Grant: That's it for this week. Check out the show notes where I put links for my guests, myself, and the podcast. Until next week, happy reading.