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FULL EPISODE TRANSCRIPT

[00:00:00] Katherine Grant: Welcome to the Historical Romance Sampler Podcast, a place for you to find new historical romance books and authors to fan over. I'm award winning historical romance author Katherine Grant, and each week I'm inviting fellow authors to come on and share a little bit of their work and themselves. They'll read a sample of one of their books, and then I'm going to ask them a bunch of questions.

[00:00:25] By the end of the episode, you'll have a sense of what they write and who they are. Hopefully, you and I both will have something new to do. So, what are we waiting for? Let's get into this week's episode. Today, I'm joined by USA Today best selling author, Charlie Lane. Charlie writes unique stories with unconventional characters who push against the rigid restrictions of their society.

[00:00:47] AKA, my favorite kind of character. Officially, Charlie has a PhD in literature with a focus on the 19th century novel and children's literature, and she answers to Professor. Unofficially, she's a high flying, circus obsessed acrobat. With an emphasis on two tailed saddlocks. And she answers to Muscles McGee.

[00:01:07] She lives with her own Colonel Brandon, two little dudes, and a furry fella in East Tennessee. Welcome, Charlie.

[00:01:14] Charlie Lane: Hi, thank you for having me.

[00:01:17] Katherine Grant: I'm so excited. So, today you're reading us an excerpt from your novel, Portraits, Passions, and Other Pastimes, which is a fantastic title. I want to start things off with a little description of the book so readers know what to expect.

[00:01:33] So, a grumpy marquess with an inheritance problem. When his father dies, Rafe Bromley, new Marquess of Waneborough, inherits a crumbling estate, an ocean of debt, a valuable art collection, and a most unusual stipulation in his father's will. No piece in the art collection can be sold unless Rafe creates a brilliant work of art.

[00:01:55] But he's all thumbs, and no imagination, and that's never going to happen. Thank goodness for heiresses. Rafe will simply marry for money. Except his mother's new companion, a clever but poor beauty, tests his resolve and makes him think, maybe painting wouldn't be so hard? A clever companion with no home of her own.

[00:02:17] After 15 years of work, Matilda Bellvue has inherited a cottage of her very own. She'll make it her home after completing one final job, serving as companion to the Marquess of Waneborough's mother. Her task is simple, help the grieving Marchioness, and, above all else, Do not fall in love with her employer, a man who makes her feel that she's finally found home.

[00:02:40] When Rafe asks Matilda to help him understand art and earn his inheritance, their attraction sizzles into something more. But she has no money, he must marry rich, and falling in love Offers only heartache. So, Charlie, can you set up the scene you're about to read?

[00:02:58] Charlie Lane: He, in the scene that I'm going to read, he is decided he needs a companion for his mother.

[00:03:03] His mother is just, like, over the top in all ways, including her grief. And despite her and her husband's flaws as parents, they were very much in love with one another. So she's really feeling the loss of her husband and he, despite his anger at how his parents mistreated the fortune and everything that was entrusted to them to keep, he still, you know, feels very protective of his mother and wants to take care of her.

[00:03:32] So he's going to go get her a companion. So this scene is from Matilda, the companion's point of view, and she is with the woman she's a current, currently a companion for. And so Rafe is going to come in and basically be like, I need you, and we'll see what happens.

[00:03:50] Katherine Grant: Nice. Alright, take it away.

[00:03:54] Charlie Lane: The Viscountess Pratsby started snoring, and Matilda peeked over the edge of her book.

[00:03:59] Lady Pratsby slumped in her large, rose pink chair, sleeping. Thank the heavens. The woman had been suffering a horrid bout of insomnia. Nothing seemed to work to help her sleep. And she despised being coddled, but she did not like Matilda to read to her. And it had been Matilda's turn to choose the book.

[00:04:16] Evelina, one of Matilda's least favorite books, had proved a blessing. And after a warm cup of tea in a chapter or two of Francis Burney's novel, Lady Pratsby snored contentedly as Matilda had hoped she would. And Matilda could stop reading.

[00:04:31] Thank the heavens. Her tongue had gone numb from reading aloud. She stretched her jaw up and down, side to side, and curled and uncurled her tongue. She stopped short of wagging it, and slowly, oh so slowly, as to avoid even the merest shush of skin against paper, she closed the book and stood. She'd been reading, how long now?

[00:04:52] She looked to the tall clock clicking, ticking away across the room. It's patterned rhythm adding an odd percussive to the Soft patter of the light rain that had washed London all morning long, hitting the windows. She squinted, read the clock she'd read for over an hour. No wonder her legs were stiff, her back ached, and her more unmentionable areas of the body had gone numb.

[00:05:16] She pressed her hands into her lower back and arched, stretching, praying no crack of bone and spine would echo across the room and wake the viscountess. Ah, better. Now she just needed tea like a pup needed a scratch behind the ears. Imperative. She poured the now lukewarm beverage into her cup and swallowed it down in four large gulps, then retook her seat and opened the book once more.

[00:05:39] The die is thrown, she read in her most moderate, sleep inducing tones, and I attend the event in trembling. What event? The events of Evelina always quite slipped from her mind as soon as she'd read them. She could never remember, from one chapter to the next, what had happened. Quite perfect book for inspiring slumber.

[00:06:00] In a fortnight, she'd never have to read Evelina again, if she did not want to. For the first time in, well, perhaps ever, her time would be her own to do with as she pleased, in her own home. She grinned and heard a happier tone in her usual monotonous recitation. Lady Pratsby shifted a bit. Made a face and snorted, more than snored.

[00:06:24] Just one, perhaps it did not herald a waking. Lady Pratsby! Matilda stood, whirled around and glared at the butler in the doorway who'd called out. She held a finger to her lips. Shhh! He shrank back, his eyes wide, flashing to the sleeping woman. Apologies, he mouthed. Matilda turned to the Viscountess, her breath held tight in her chest, hoping, hoping The Viscountess's eyes shot open.

[00:06:52] He's mine, wench! Blast. Mr. Johns took a step farther into the room, collecting his dignity about him with a shove of his sharp nose into the air. Apologies for waking you, my lady, but our Marquess of Waneborough is here to speak with Miss Bellvue. Are you at home? Lady Pratsby pulled herself more upright, patted her hair, and said, No, we're not.

[00:07:12] I'm tired. Mr. John's turn to leave. Lady Pratsby, Matilda said, the Marquess has come to see me. You are still weary and I would like you to retreat to your room and nap if possible. While you are resting I'll visit with the Marquess. I wonder if others companions order them about as you do me. If I order you about, it's because I care for you, Matilda said.

[00:07:35] Well, you can't visit with the man alone and Oh, she shook a finger at Mr. Johns. Isn't Lord Waneborough the funny chap who has that outrageous house party every year, only for artists? Yes, that's him. Matilda folded her book and put it to the side, and I rather think I should speak to him. I worked for him for a year, a long time ago, as governess to his daughter.

[00:07:59] But why would he be here now, asking to speak to her? She could not say. Show him in, Johns. The Viscountess straightened her shoulders and smoothed her skirts. I've always been curious about that house party. Mr. John's left and Matilda rang for more tea. I think She said, You should leave me to speak with him alone, my lady.

[00:08:19] Poppycock! You are an unmarried girl! I'm a companion, four and thirty years of age. He is a married man and father. He could be my father. I believe we can be allowed some privacy. She bustled to Lady Pratsby's side. Do you need help rising? I'm five and six, my dear. Not dead. Budge your knees, Lady Pratsby.

[00:08:37] Matilda held out a hand. Bah! But Lady Pratsby took the proffered help and they stood together facing the door, smoothing their skirts. Lady Pratsby sliced her sideways glance. What's a Marquess doing here to speak with you? As if Matilda hadn't been born a baron's daughter, hadn't taken her vows and had two seasons.

[00:08:55] After a certain amount of servitude, the life you were born into no longer mattered. Lady Pratsby's elbow dug into Matilda's ribs. He likely wishes to marry you. Matilda laughed and moved away from the bony assault. It is not that, I assure you. It's been, it must be, 15 years since I've seen him.

[00:09:13] Randy men don't forget pretty faces! Or figures, Lady Pratsby said. He's horribly in love with his wife, Matilda assured her, who is, as far as I know, yet living. If you'd seen them together, you'd understand. He has no intentions of straying from his marriage bed. What then? Come now, don't hide anything from me.

[00:09:30] You're my companion, and it's your job to keep me informed and entertained. Yes. Specially with gossip. I have no clue, my lady. The truth, that, she barely said a word to him, even when she'd resided in his house. The day of the picnic had been her most interaction with the man and with his son. Footsteps down the hall.

[00:09:47] The heavy fall of thick soled boots alongside Mr. John's softer patter. Mr. John swept into the room. The Marquess of Waneborough. But the man, standing awkward by his side, turning the brim of his sodden hat round and round in thick, long, increasingly wet, gloved fingers, was not the Marquess of Waneborough.

[00:10:05] The ends of his hair curled at his nape, stark and dark, damp and thick against the crisp white of his cravat, the rest of his hair, mahogany, a slight wave to it, was dry. The hat's doing likely. Mr. Johns must have taken his greatcoat because the rest of him was dry as well, but for his boots, which boasted a layer of mud.

[00:10:22] His stubble jaw and a straight strong nose seemed carved from marble in the nose. A little bump on it up high must have been broken once. His eyes were the pale blue of a hot summer sky, and he was not the Marquess she knew, but she did know him. The boy she'd known back then had been, it seemed, carved away entirely, any soft points he'd had honed a rough hardness.

[00:10:44] She took several stumbling steps toward him. Viscount Stillman, I'd not expected But Mr. John said, My father died. I'm the Marquess of Waneborough now. She rocked back on her heels. Oh, I do apologize. I had no idea. My condolences, my lord. He scratched a hand through his hair, dividing it into dark sections.

[00:11:06] Bala Blast. I should have broken the news in a less startling way, I did not think. Perhaps, but she did not remember him as a particularly eloquent or smooth sort of man. If a woman ever took it upon herself to polish him up, she'd fail miserably. But Some men needed no polish. They were fine the way they were, rough hewn and of the elements.

[00:11:25] My lord, Mr. John stepped forward. May I take your hat now? Pardon? Lord Waneborough looked at the butler, startled. Oh, yes, of course. Bollock, he jerked, a weary glance toward Matilda and Lady Pratsby. Blast. Apologies. I remain in the country as much as possible, and I'm afraid there's not much need to hold my tongue there.

[00:11:43] Don't mind me, lad! Lady Pratsby said, I'm no stranger to an impolite word or two. I bet I could shock you. Lord Waneborough looked to Matilda, mouth slightly open. Did he seek help? He'd find none from her. It suited Matilda most hours of the day to let her employer do and say as she pleased. It kept the woman happy, gave her pleasure.

[00:12:01] And Matilda would never deny that, especially not to the woman she'd met in the middle of her earth swallowing grief. Lady Pratsby had healed quite nicely from losing her husband in the three years they'd been together. Oh, she would shock you, Matilda said, terribly. Yes, delightful. The Marquess scratched the back of his neck.

[00:12:19] Miss Bellvue, may I speak with you? To the point, then, yes, she remembered that about him, an admirable quality she'd long admired in him. Yes, of course, she said with a nod, just as Lady Pratsby said, no, of course not. Matilda turned stiff to her employer. My lady, you need not remain here. His lordship and I are old acquaintances.

[00:12:37] Lady Pratsby only narrowed her eyes at the Marquess. You can say what you have to say before me. Very well, then, he held his chin high. I'm in need of a companion for my mother. She has suffered much since the loss of my father, and she needs distraction, a friend. Lady Pratsby huffed. A paid friend? Is that not what you have, my lady?

[00:12:56] Lord Waneborough's Tone could snap through wood. The Viscountess chuckled. But I won't for long if you have your way, isn't that right? You were trying to steal her from me. Matilda frowned. The two thought they could march right over her. Matilda preferred to do the marching herself. Once she understood the rhythm, she stepped between them.

[00:13:13] Do you intend to ask me to be a companion to your mother, my lord? I do, a stiff nod. His toe had started tapping on the floor. She pulled in a deep breath. I'm sorry to disappoint you. I am honored you have thought of me, but who else would I think of Miss Bellvue? You were the only person who kept Maggie, that's his sister, from going feral all those years ago.

[00:13:31] You're the only reason she has a thimble full of understanding of the social world she moves through, and you did it all without snuffing her out. You waved a hand toward, he waved a hand toward Lady Pratsby, and look at the Viscountess. She clearly does not wish to lose. You and I have seen you through each and every new position you've taken in each family.

[00:13:48] Each house has looked on you with pride. I ask again, Ms. Bellvue, who would I choose? If not you? Lady Pratts be sank down into her pink chair to the creek of angry knees. Keep talking. I like it when a young man knows truth. Matilda gathered her skirts and swept toward the study down door at the end of the other, at the other end of the room.

[00:14:07] We will have that private audience now. My Lord, please follow me. She did not look to the Viscountess for confirmation. She was no green girl. Lady Pratsby wagged her finger at them. Don't take too long, or I'll come in after you. And Miss Bellvue? Matilda stopped at the door, Lord Waneborough almost bumping into her.

[00:14:23] Yes, my lady. Do let him down gently. I'm closing the door, Matilda said. Lady Pratsby waved a hand at them and Matilda slipped into the small dark study. She swept across the room and threw open the curtains, letting the gray light of the rainy day turn dark shadows into slightly brighter ones. When she turned to him, he stood in the center of the room, hands clasped behind his back, a lock of damp curling hair falling over one eye, a handsome man in an unrefined way.

[00:14:52] He should intimidate her, but she'd known him when he was still quite young. When he was seen, for the first time, the breaks and fractures in the world, same as she was. They'd learned bitter truths side by side, and she saw in him not a gruff Marquess demanding her help, but a man trying his best to keep his world afloat.

[00:15:09] Same as she. My lord, she said, I'm so very Sorry to hear of your loss. Is it recent? January, thank you for your condolences, but what I truly need is your help. She nodded. That is what I understand, but I'm afraid I cannot help you. I cannot pay you well, which you know of course, I assume that colors your refusal.

[00:15:29] Not at all, and I am valiantly succeeding in not being insulted by your implication. You have done much for me through the years, always a supporter from afar, and I do appreciate that, I'm quite Quite grateful. Her breath hitched and she spoke in lower tones. You've kept all your promises to me. What then puts a refusal on your tongue?

[00:15:46] He asked. I'm afraid, no, I'm pleased to tell you. I'm a free woman. In a fortnight, that is. Then you will be free of me. Of the burden of promises made long ago. His brows lowered, drew together like two storm clouds about to strike lightning. The London rain had coalesced on his forehead. I've inherited a house, she explained.

[00:16:04] A home in Cumbria, a small cottage, a small, very small annuity from an aunt. When Lady Pratsby's daughter returns to London in a fortnight, I will leave her employee and head to Cumbria to live a life of solitude and ease. I see. You should have told me, he said. I had planned to write you once I settled, my lord.

[00:16:22] I have served others for fifteen years and now I shall serve myself. I hope you are pleased for me. Blast it, Matilda! Of course I am. You do not sound pleased. His palms found his face scrubbed up and down. My mother, he heaved a sigh as his arms dropped heavy to his sides. It is not your worry. Please do give her my good wishes.

[00:16:40] She was always kind to me and I hope she heals from her loss. Of course, and I do understand, he said, if I suddenly inherited, well, if 15 years of struggle came to an end, another sigh, this one rough as a brick, I understand, Miss Bellvue, and I wish you well, even if, selfishly, I wish your aunt had left someone else her cottage in Cumbria.

[00:16:59] She left just enough to slide a bit of easiness between them. He bowed, a stiff board bent in two, good day, Miss Bellvue. Good day, my lord. She pointed to a second door across the room. If you escape out that door, you will not have to face the Viscountess again. He grinned, the first one she'd seen from him since he'd arrived muddy booted minutes before, and heavens, but her heart raced again, not from fear this time, though she was startled.

[00:17:20] Startled by how handsome his chiseled grinning face was, how tempting and soft his full lips looked curved round a moment of humor, her heart skipped because in that grin was the young, unsure man who'd also pulled the air from her lungs with such ease. Thank you, he said, but at least you've saved me in this way, and Miss Bellvue, you were never a burden.

[00:17:39] She returned his smile and tried not to watch his legs and other lower anatomy move in his buckskins as he crossed the room and passed through the door. Tried, and failed. No reason not to enjoy a peek, though, when she'd never see him again. He'd always had a lovely lower half. Now that man knows how to fill out a pair of pants.

[00:18:00] She'd been caught. She turned to find her employee leaning against the frame of the other door. Filling out breaches is not something someone can know how to do, she said. Matilda said. It is just something they do. Precisely, girl, and that fellow does, Lady Pratsby said. If anything, we should be praising his tailor, Matilda insisted, and, oh, she closed her eyes and found the right path of conversation.

[00:18:24] Shall we finish another chapter of Evelina, my lady? Matilda joined her in the doorway. No! Miss Pratsby, Lady Pratsby said, but we can talk about that man's offer. Matilda sailed into the room. Other room. You told me to refuse him gently. I did. Ah, I see. Mrs. Hoskins has brought more tea. Lovely. I only have you, my dear companion, for another fortnight.

[00:18:45] I'll not send you away sooner than that. Just so. Matilda said it had been interesting to see him again to see the man he'd become no more gangly youth But something else was missing from him to a vulnerability He used to wear smiles easily and that no nonsense way of speaking He'd had that used to be his delivery of compliments and easy conversation now She feared he did not speak unless accomplishing something did not move unless he had a purpose a pity that She'd lived the last 15 years of life with purpose and had thus learned the value of leisure.

[00:19:14] That life of labor would soon be done, the home she'd always longed for so very near. There were plenty of women in England in need of position as companion. Let the Marquess find someone else to work for him.

[00:19:27] Katherine Grant: Ah, that's so amazing! I can't wait to find out how she ends up saying yes. Yeah! All the details in that scene, oh my gosh, I could, it was Really beautiful to listen to.

[00:19:37] Thank you. Thank you. I have a bunch of questions for you, but first we're going to take a break for our sponsors. Hey samplers! It's Katherine Grant. I am interrupting this episode to tell you how to get a free book, the Viscount Without Virtue. First, go to bit.ly/hrs fan, go through the checkout process. This is where you add the promo code, HRSFAN as your last step. Just download your free ebook to your ereader.

[00:20:12] Alright, well let's get back to this week's episode.

[00:20:14] Well, we're back with Charlie and I was taking some notes while I was listening to your scene because I am curious about how other authors go about their creativity. And the first thing I noticed was she's reading a 19th century novel, possibly 18th century. I'm not sure. So this is obviously your area of expertise.

[00:20:34] How do you feel like that? Like, do you draw on that a lot for? Your creative process. How does that fit in?

[00:20:42] Charlie Lane: I would it's it fits in everywhere. I don't know if I consciously draw on it for as part of my creative process, but my brain is like a battlefield of 18th and 19th century illusions and just random information.

[00:21:00] And so it's kind of always up there a little bit and. I guess that in some ways, it makes some of the things easier to write because I have a constant sort of well to pull from when these characters are having conversations of sort of the cultural background, because the authors were really the poets.

[00:21:25] They those were the, the, the rock stars of the day. You know, those are the people that. The as well as, like, the peerage, the, or the the famous folk. Yeah. We're in the tabloids who people were talking about who were also creating the philosophical ideas that the regular person was either vibing with or pushing against.

[00:21:51] So not consciously, but it's, it's always up there.

[00:21:55] Katherine Grant: Yeah. Well, I know Jane Austen is often pulled upon as one of, like, the mothers of romance, but modern romance is actually maybe more influenced by Georgette Heyer or whatever. What's your opinion on that?

[00:22:08] Charlie Lane: Oh, yeah. Such a great question. I agree with you.

[00:22:13] Absolutely. Jane Austen was especially, and actually I would equate our contemporary romance more with Jane Austen and what Jane Austen was doing because she was writing contemporary stories, satires. Our contemporary romance has less satire, social satire than her books did. But. Definitely, well, historical romance is now inspired by Austin.

[00:22:40] That's not at all what she was setting out to do with that. So, I would absolutely agree with you that Georgette Heyer is much more of the, the mother of historical romance than Jane Austen is. But that Jane Austen has since, especially with the film adaptations, become so wrapped up in what we think of when we think of historical romance that we can't now disentangle her.

[00:23:08] Katherine Grant: Yeah, I feel like she has created a lot of character archetypes, but the plot elements aren't there in her books, where we've done completely different stuff plot wise. Yeah. You know, she's not steamy.

[00:23:21] Charlie Lane: Yeah, absolutely.

[00:23:24] Katherine Grant: So one thing that really draws me about this book is that it's about creativity. And I personally, obviously, we're both creative people because we're novelists.

[00:23:36] And I personally, sometimes I'm drawn to writing about creativity, but simultaneously find it incredibly difficult to Like put into words what it is like to be creative. So how do you think

[00:23:48] Charlie Lane: it's so difficult? It's so incredibly difficult. And this entire series is really struggling about the purpose of art in life.

[00:23:56] And it was particularly difficult. For me to write from some of these perspectives, especially of the brothers who are really disenchanted with art because of how their parents just threw all of, you know, all of the family's security and wealth away on their artistic projects. one side of me that loves art and loves, you know, going to museums and things like that is like, yes, I want all the art, but then the other side of me that

[00:24:23] as a parent totally sides with the kids in this going, like, how could they have done this? And so it's definitely been difficult to juggle that perspective of how it's anything can become bad when it's. Like put in the wrong hands or the wrong motivations or something like that. I had a good time in this book, particularly talking about the creative process, because Rafe is not really an artist at heart, and he doesn't want to sit down and he doesn't want to think about

[00:25:00] what is worth capturing through artistic and artistic medium. He is such a poor dear poor dear. He is like the hardest time and every time he attempts to make a painting. Someone's right behind him, making fun of it being like, what is that? We can't even tell what that is. But the entire book is lovingly wrapped up in that joke of the fact that he cannot create and one of them.

[00:25:25] One of the really fun things has been figuring out, like, what is the thing they do to earn their inheritance in each book? So I've written four of them so far, and I've gotten to be really creative about, like, what does this guy who can't paint a straight line, how does he create art in such a way that's meaningful to him, meaningful to his family?

[00:25:50] And so you have to read to figure out what that is. But each brother has a totally different, Piece of art that they construct and that they create and that ends up being at sort of the heart of realizing that they're in love and how to so, so love definitely is part of the artistic creation. I also want to add like.

[00:26:12] In my circus life, I have done several performances about, the creative process, and so thinking about art as, a physical medium as well has highly influenced this book and how we perform art instead of just. Creating it, if that makes sense. So it's like, none of my performances are, they might, they might be recorded, but that live performance will never happen again.

[00:26:42] So it's just a moment in time. Yeah, so,

[00:26:47] Katherine Grant: yeah, that's really interesting.

[00:26:51] I I do dance class as a hobby. So I do tap and ballet and it is very interesting to switch from, like, my creative writing. Process and then go into dance, which is so ballet in particular is very rigid and sometimes it's like, how is this art and not exercise?

[00:27:08] I mean, it is exercise, but you know, what is the line between those things? And then, like you said, like, the performance is ephemeral and disappears and. Same thing with baking. I think about that a lot when people are like creative bakers or whatever. I'm always like, but then your stuff is evil and it doesn't exist anymore.

[00:27:31] Charlie Lane: Yeah, yeah. I've been on a huge, I've been, I just finished watching like 2022's Great British Bake Off and started 2021 or 23 yesterday. And yeah, they made these amazing like structures and then Paul Hollywood just takes a knife and it's like, bam. It's so Yeah. So upsetting.

[00:27:53] Katherine Grant: So, when you are approaching all these different characters in the series who are different types of artists.

[00:28:00] Like, how much research are you doing to understand, you know, how to do oil painting or whatever?

[00:28:05] Charlie Lane: So for, for Rafe, I didn't, he's not an artist at all. So there wasn't much, but I did research or continue research I had done during grad school on like William Turner. And. Some of there's a lot of crossover as well between like, poets who also wanted to be a visual artists and visual arts who wanted to be poets.

[00:28:30] And there's lots of conversation. I think I mentioned Keats here in this book who wasn't a visual artist, but this family, the mother and the father who hold these house parties every year for artists. They, they. Welcome all artists of all mediums. So poets are welcome as well. And so I drop a Keats in there, which I love Keats poetry.

[00:28:50] And I did a lot, especially for book two of research on the types of the types of artistic tools available during the time period and paint bladders. So there were paints that came inside these bladders and they were highly explosive.

[00:29:14] And then also like how canvases were made what sort of charcoals, I mean, like paints were also highly poisonous at the time period at like lead based. So I didn't, I wanted to make sure that like, in the use, creative use of paints in this book, that we weren't accidentally like putting lead on anyone's skin.

[00:29:37] Katherine Grant: Yeah,

[00:29:43] Charlie Lane: so, I mean, kind of taking by a 21st century. Oh, that's a no, no. And just being like, well, what was another, like, material they could use instead? So we're not painting lead on these people and making their H. E. A. less viable. Yeah, right.

[00:30:02] Katherine Grant: Oh, that's so interesting. So, I was just reading Regency Spies, and there's this anecdote about Coleridge and Wordsworth and his sister Dorothy and they like, took up a house in a new district of England, and they were like walking around like, painting it, or discussing poetry, or just like, you know, like, they were like, making maps, but it was more like an observational for an art.

[00:30:25] But people thought they were French spies, and the government sent a spy to like, figure out like, who were these new French people. I don't know why people thought they were French. I'm guessing they must have been speaking French to each other. But yeah. It was really interesting to be like, wow! What were

[00:30:41] Charlie Lane: doing,

[00:30:41] that's amazing.

[00:30:43] I really love that anecdote. Yeah, they, there were their relationship. There's a book, a really great book about their friendship called the friendship that it's just beautiful to read and in funny in places, because Culver, they just had such a bromance, but it was also super high drama at the same time.

[00:31:02] So I really recommend the friendship. Another place I did a lot of research was because book 3, which actually dropped today, yeah, it, the hero is a satirist. So we have a brother who's actually an artist, but he doesn't want to use it for any, like, frilly artistic purpose. He's going to use it for like, social justice.

[00:31:27] And he's going to like, you know, reveal the vile underbelly of the ton and make fun of people who do wrong things and things like that. And we have to like, soften them up a bit. And there was a really gigantic book that I read for to research satirical drawings of the time. Fascinating. Great drawings.

[00:31:50] Just every page filled with filled with drawings.

[00:31:54] Katherine Grant: Yeah, there was a real level of irony that people operated with. I was researching counterfeit money for one of my books, and, like, there was counterfeit money, but there was also, like, what they called flash notes, which were just mimicking paper money, but it was satire or it was marketing purposes, like, you know, you get this fake Monopoly money.

[00:32:15] And then, but they also had been doing that with coins for, like, decades as well, or they just, like, were making fun of. political points. What I thought were like very savvy political points, somehow they were like doing pithily on coins for the average person to consume. So I don't know, it's very interesting.

[00:32:35] Charlie Lane: That is, that's, they definitely had a huge sense of humor. And a very like grotesque bodily sense of humor. I always think when I look at the satirical drawings, I also think of like Edward Lear, who was a child's nonsense poet, more Victorian though. But clearly his writing style has been influenced in some way by earlier satirical drawings.

[00:32:59] They're very, like, gigantically long chins and the body just like blown all out of proportion constantly.

[00:33:08] Katherine Grant: Oh, that's so interesting. So speaking of humor, I know your books are the humorous side of rom com for historical arguments. So, when you're writing What comes first? Humor? Characters? Plot? Setting?

[00:33:22] Language?

[00:33:23] Charlie Lane: Oh, God, who knows?

[00:33:28] Usually, I'm trying to think about So This particular series started with the final book in my very first series ever, London Secrets, and that we get to actually the characters, the main characters in that book, Secrets Between Lovers is the name of the book, they meet at a house party, and it's Maggie, the sister, Rafe's sister, and an artist.

[00:33:57] And so we get to see the house party, we get to see a lot of the artists and we get to see Rafe and he's there. And so it started really with this concept of the house party for artists and it started with Rafe and him just being grumpy all the time because he was not into all these artists being in his house, eating all the food, like costing them all this money.

[00:34:16] And he's just trying to keep things together. And so my critique partner, one of the very first comments she said after reading that book was. Yeah. When do I get Rafe's story? And I was like, yes, I know. So, so it definitely started with him and this reaction, like, what would. What would it be like if you were surrounded by some of the most brilliant art of your century, but at the same time, like, it's draining your, it's draining your life, and it's draining your resources, it's hurting the town, and it's hurting the people that you're in charge of caring for, and things like that.

[00:34:53] So what would that be like? Which was a difficult premise for me, because I, like I said, I love art. So getting into that headspace is difficult, but it's been great. And so the humor, I think, comes slightly from that setup a little bit. But then I also noticed that because he's so grouchy, it was a little bit difficult to get the humor in there at first.

[00:35:15] And I often had to come in and go like, okay, I'm kind of feeling like writing is a drag today. So, like, where's the humor? The funny going to come from, because if it's not funny or a little bit lighthearted and skipping, I kind of feel like I'm not having fun writing. So for this particular book, it came in Lady Pratsby and Rafe's mom, who is, she says somewhere in the book that she lives beyond the pale, like that's where she loves to exist.

[00:35:40] So once I got Lady Pratsby and the mom together, then they just provide all these like. Wonderful innuendos and antics, and then also making fun of Rafe a little bit for his inability to draw. So basically the humor comes in when I'm starting to get bored, like, this is dragging. And so that's good.

[00:36:07] Sometimes it comes 1st with the fake February rake, which is coming out February 1st. Part of the rake review series that I'm doing with a whole bunch of other authors. The humor came first because I can't write rakes and I was like, so it's gonna have to be funny. So, like, how in the world am I going to write a book about a rake?

[00:36:27] Well, he's not really a rake and everyone just thinks he is. So for, for me, that's That that's the humor came first there. So it just depends.

[00:36:38] Katherine Grant: Yeah, I get that. I also would have to say it depends for me if I ask myself. Are you a romantic?

[00:36:49] And these are some questions to determine whether you're a romantic and I'm not using capital R as in. 19th century romantic.

[00:36:57] Charlie Lane: Okay, I needed that distinction.

[00:37:03] Katherine Grant: Okay, which do you trust most? Your heart, your gut, or your brain?

[00:37:07] Charlie Lane: Heart, but it has to have very intense conversations with the brain to make sure that it's not being like,

[00:37:18] Katherine Grant: All right.

[00:37:18] Do you believe in love at first sight?

[00:37:25] Charlie Lane: Yes. And no, I would have said no before I met my husband and then I wouldn't call it love at first sight, but there was definitely like the first time I ever saw him. There was like this, this connection, this like strange, like, huh. Kind of like, I don't just like everything kind of paused. It was like. Wow.

[00:37:49] And then like every, you know, it, it did not take long. Right. Every moment of like getting to know him more was like, just kind of added to that feeling that pause. So yes and no.

[00:38:04] Katherine Grant: Okay. So kind of related. Do you think there's a difference between lust and love?

[00:38:10] Charlie Lane: I do. Yes. Yes, I think it's delightful when they're rolled up together.

[00:38:16] Katherine Grant: Right? Okay, do you

[00:38:20] believe in soulmates?

[00:38:22] Charlie Lane: I

[00:38:22] do. And I believe in soulmates both romantically and like friendship wise, platonically.

[00:38:28] Katherine Grant: I like that. Do you believe in true love? And is it the same in soulmates?

[00:38:34] Charlie Lane: That's a, that's a difficult one. Like, I'm not even sure how I would define true love. When you say like true love, like I've immediately got the Princess Bride soundtrack going on in my head.

[00:38:47] And it's love, true love. Yeah. And so like that's what I'm thinking is what brings us here together today. Yeah. I'm not sure where I come to. I think I need to see a definition. Okay.

[00:39:04] Katherine Grant: That's fair. Very academic. I don't have one off the top of my head, so we'll just move on. Yeah. Okay, cool. Can you fall in love with someone you have never met?

[00:39:15] Charlie Lane: And by this, I think I assume you mean like you can exchange letters.

[00:39:19] Katherine Grant: Yeah, like you have, I, it could be that, like an ancestral area, like online sort of thing, or even can you fall in love with someone, like, maybe there's a profile on them and you get to know them from like what they're putting out in the world.

[00:39:32] You have never met them, and they're not, they don't know about you.

[00:39:36] Charlie Lane: A part of me wants to say no, I mean, yes, but like the more practical part of me says that like well, this is probably like the, the like, skeptical part of me is like, things can be. Modified in a letter, I'm thinking, or, or a profile or something like that.

[00:39:57] And I think that there's something about meeting someone in person that gives you like better vibes or an opportunity to know them more holistically and well rounded. I'm thinking of like Julia Quinn's To Sir Philip With Love right now. Yeah, they get things rolling, but man, are things different once they meet each other in person.

[00:40:19] And I think that that's probably the more likely to happen.

[00:40:24] Katherine Grant: Yeah. That's an interesting example because they've basically fallen in love with what they're each projecting. They want the person to be, and then they're confronted with reality, which I would argue is what we all do when we fall in love, but it's not always physically separate.

[00:40:40] Charlie Lane: Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I think you're right.

[00:40:43] Katherine Grant: Okay. What makes an apology meaningful?

[00:40:47] Charlie Lane: Oh, we're getting into grand gesture territory. That's great. That's great. It's a great question.

[00:41:00] I like. Personally, to see a whole bunch of thought and thoroughness behind the apology. To me, it's not so much like one single grand gesture that like a single moment in time can be like, swallowed. It can disappear. Right? But something that shows sincere long term. Commitment to, like, improving the problem that you had to apologize for.

[00:41:31] So I think that's one of the reasons the grand gesture is incredibly difficult for, for me and probably everyone to write. I don't know. I'm not going to put that on everyone, but definitely for me to write because I'm like, this is like a single scene, but I have to show, like, commitment. To the apology and to doing better, I have to believe that the character is going to continue to do better and not make the same mistakes over and over again.

[00:41:58] Katherine Grant: Yeah, the grand gesture is hard. Okay, last one. Why is romantic love important?

[00:42:05] Charlie Lane: Oh, it makes things better. I think that there's something in romantic love about companionship on a very visceral, raw and vulnerable level where you share everything from like the heart inside the body to everything in the world surrounding the body with the other person, the goods and the bads and everything that's in between and romantic love Has to be constantly, like, worked on and through all of those complexities that are interwoven together, but that if you can do that, it offers this, like, foundation for support that is really important through for getting through, like, a.

[00:42:56] A world that's not a romance novel, right? And that's why that's why I love romance novels, because they, they offer also that, even if it's in like, 300 pages, that sense of support and that foundation of being understood and things like that.

[00:43:18] Katherine Grant: Yeah, I like that. And I think romance novels center how important that is to us, whereas a lot of other media doesn't.

[00:43:26] It's like, well, if you only knew how to, you know, fight off the bad guys with seven knives.

[00:43:33] Charlie Lane: Yeah, yeah. I mean, is it more difficult to fight off the bad guys with seven knives or to like open up your chest and share like those most vulnerable parts of you with someone else? I don't know. Yeah.

[00:43:48] Katherine Grant: Well, thank you so much.

[00:43:49] This has been really fantastic. To close things out. Would you like to tell our readers where they can connect with you, learn more about you, get your books?

[00:43:58] Charlie Lane: Yeah, right now, most of my books are on Amazon Exclusive, Kindle Unlimited. My website is under construction, but hopefully it will, by the time this hits the world, it will not be under construction.

[00:44:12] So that's like charlielaneauthor. com. I am most active on Instagram for social media, but I also have Brazen Bells, which is a Facebook reader group, which is a whole lot of fun with, I think, 11 other authors. And I have a newsletter as well, which Is in my link tree that you can access through various places like Instagram.

[00:44:36] So, yeah, you're on TikTok, too. Oh, I am on TikTok. You're right, and I do try to post pretty regularly on there, but sometimes I will just disappear for a while from there, but I'm pretty regular on on Instagram. I like Instagram a lot. All right. Well, thank you so much.

[00:44:57] Katherine Grant: That's it for this week.

[00:45:02] Check out the show notes where I put links for my guests, myself, and the podcast. Until next week, happy reading.