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Kasia Alba Samples The Bride Goes Rogue by Joanna Shupe
[00:00:00]
Katherine Grant: Welcome to the historical romance sampler podcast. I'm your host, Katherine Grant, and each week I introduce you to another amazing historical romance author. My guest reads a little sample of their work, and then we move into a free ranging interview. If you like these episodes, don't forget to subscribe to the historical romance sampler, wherever you listen to podcasts and follow us on Instagram, TikTok, and YouTube.
Now let's get into this week's episode.
I am very excited. Today we have a special episode of the Historical Romance sampler. Kasia Alba from the podcast Raising Baby Authors is with us to read one of her favorite historical romances and talk to me about the historical romance genre.
So Kasia, I'm so excited that you are here today and we can be co [00:01:00] podcasters talking about historical romance. Thank you so much for coming on.
Kasia Alba: Thank you so much for inviting me. I'm super, super excited.
Katherine Grant: So what are you reading for us today?
Kasia Alba: All right, so I've got, I've got this, the Bride Goes Rogue by Joanna Shupe.
The couple here is Katherine Delafield and Preston Clark. So I'm gonna be reading from the beginning. It's the inciting incident. So the point is that Katherine is engaged to Preston and their parents agreed to it, and she spent a year kind of knowing that she is going to marry this guy.
But, she let him sort of, kind of have his life and sow his wild outs or whatever it's called. And just after a year, she got fed up and she decided to come and talk to him about the wedding. And so she appears at his office, he's like a business mogul. And well, yeah, this is where we start.
A man rose from behind the desk. He was [00:02:00] every bit as handsome as she remembered. More so actually. "Miss Delafield." Lord, he was even bigger up close. He made her, a woman taller than most, feel tiny. Her chest fluttered as she shook his hand.
"Hello, Mr. Clark."
"Thank you, Mrs. Cohen," he said to the secretary, who nodded and closed the door. Then to Katherine, "won't you have a seat?"
She gracefully lowered herself into a chair while at the same time taking a peek at the room, curious about her future husband's domain. The office was sparse with a walnut desk and chairs, bare walls, and a giant safe in the corner. He needed some decorations in here, some artwork
at the very least. She put it on her mental list to hang some paintings in his office after the wedding. Something serene and soft like Manet perhaps. Meeting his gaze, she said, "I apologize for coming unannounced like this."
"I admit my curiosity is piqued." He leaned back in his chair. "What may I do for [00:03:00] you?"
She took the list from her journal and handed it to him.
"Here are the items on which we must decide. I've been pestering my father with these questions, and he suggested I just come see you. So here I am." She gave a small laugh, the kind that came out whenever she was nervous. He accepted the paper without looking at it. "What questions would those be?"
Edging forward, she found her pencil and began reading of her notes in a journal.
"First, I'd like to discuss the time of year. Most people prefer the spring, but I quite like the idea of the fall. September perhaps. We'll decorate with orange blossoms, of course."
He glanced at the paper, his lips parting slightly as he read her list. "Wait, what?"
"You're right," she hurried to say. "Spring might be better.
Let's set that aside and return to it later. Now, let's discuss food. I would prefer to hire Louis Sherry over Delmonico's." He grimaced and placed a piece of paper on his desk carefully. A muscle moved in his jaw as he held up a hand. " Please, [00:04:00] we should talk about this."
"Would you rather decide on the music?
It's unconventional, but I like the idea of a single harpist for the ceremony."
"You must stop."
Uneasiness compounded in her stomach. Men typically didn't participate in wedding preparations, but she hoped to arrange everything to his liking. She wanted to be the perfect wife. "I know it seems trivial, silly little things women like me worry about."
She lifted her shoulder. "But I didn't want to get off on the wrong foot by ignoring your input. That is, unless you prefer for me to make all the decisions."
"I'm not referring to the plans, per se. I'm referring to the wedding. We're not getting married. Not in the spring. Not in the fall. Despite what you have been told, this is not happening."
A shiver of fear and embarrassment slid through her. "I don't understand."
"I am not marrying you."
"But." She blinked at him and bit the inside of her cheek. "We're betrothed. Our fathers agreed on our marriage years ago."
"You didn't really believe [00:05:00] them, did you? They had no right to make that betrothal on our behalf.
This isn't Medieval Scotland, where on two rival clans that must be joined in marriage to keep the peace. It's nearly the 20th century."
"I suppose, but I always expected my father would choose my husband. It's how things are done."
"Not for me," he said firmly. "Even if he were alive, I wouldn't allow my father to choose my wife."
Air trickled into her two tight lungs like they'd been wrapped in twine, and a strange ringing started in her ears. "Is it because of the way I look? Too tall, not tall enough. Is my hair too plain? My eyes are too close together, aren't they?"
"Good god, no. It's not about how you look. You are lovely. It's about me.
I'm not ready to marry anyone. I may never be ready to marry. Do you understand?"
There had to be a reason. Most men his age were married. It was what people in their circles did. "This doesn't make any sense."
"Miss Delafield. [00:06:00] Katherine," he said, his tone gentle but firm. "I apologize, but I cannot marry you. I really am sorry if you believed otherwise, but believe me, this is for your own good."
For her own good. He was sorry. This was like a terrible dream. Worse than one where she was running and couldn't find her way home. Mouth dry, she swallowed. "Perhaps you need more time to come to terms with the idea. I can wait."
His lips flattened into a thin line, the skin above his collar turning a deep red. "I don't need time, Miss
Delafield. Not a year, not a decade. I cannot marry you ever. Is that clear enough for you or shall I write it down in list form?" He gestured to her forgotten paper on his desk. Realization hit her like a douse of cold rainwater. She finally understood he didn't want to marry her. She had been waiting for nothing.
Absolutely nothing. For one year she believed herself betrothed, putting off her future until he was ready. How [00:07:00] silly, how stupid, how naive. Hot prickles gathered behind her eyes, every breath scraping like needles inside her chest. She couldn't pull enough air into her lungs and the urge to flee overrode everything else.
"I see. I'm terribly sorry for bothering you." She snapped her journal closed and shot her feet. "I won't trouble you again. Good day, sir."
"Wait," he called behind her, but she didn't listen. She kept right on walking. She'd already given Preston Clark too much of her time. She wasn't about to waste one second more.
So that's like, I don't know. That's one of the best meet cutes, if you can call it that, that I've read in a book. So that's why I really wanted to show it. There's also another kind of part to it, which is her coming back. But it's shown in his POV. So when he's contemplating what just happened, she storms in [00:08:00] back and yells at him because she suddenly decided that it's, it's not enough.
She needs to say more.
Katherine Grant: It's interesting because it's is structurally it's the meet cute, but what's so different about it is it's a rejection and they've met before.
Yeah. But it's, it's starting the romance with a very clear and kind of unemotional like, no, I'm not marrying you. And she was entering not emotional and ends the scene with a lot of emotion. And as a reader Wow. I, I was feeling that rejection and the humiliation.
Kasia Alba: Oh. Yeah. Yeah. I know for me, like it was really, I do love a meet cute.
I love like meeting in the ballrooms or in the gardens and house parties and stuff. But this was just so unusual on so many levels. So basically not only do they know each other already, they had this weird understanding that was only one sided. [00:09:00] She was kind of okay with it, but she's not in love with him like.
She doesn't like him. She's like, okay, it's gonna be my husband, because that's the the thing. It's what is done and he doesn't even have any idea that anything is going on. And I really love that you can see through the dialogue who she is, that she thinks in lists, that she likes to organize things, that she's nice, but she's like, oh, I'm gonna, I'm gonna put some paintings in his office when I'm his wife, because this is normal to her.
And it's just, you can see her personality super well from this scene. I love it.
Katherine Grant: Yeah. It's a very revealing scene. Like I was writing down, oh, she's really competent. She's really accepting of her reality. Oh, wow. She's really demeaning herself. Even before he rejects her, she says, oh, this is just what silly little women think.
And then immediately she assumes that she's not pretty. And so it, it reveals so much about her strengths and then also like, you know, the, the interior landscape of how [00:10:00] she feels about herself. I find it interesting you said the, in the next scene, it's his point of view and that's when she's yelling at him.
As a writer, I always find it interesting to decide what part of the scene or which scenes are told from which point of view. What do you think is significant about having the rejection him reject her, be from her point of view, but then have her yell at him, be from his point of view? Does it give you something
new as a reader?
Kasia Alba: I think well to the rejection to be from her point of view makes total sense to me because she's the one who doesn't know, like the premise of the situation that there is a betrothal. But if we were in his point of view, it would be like. That's not happening, and that's clear.
And, and we wouldn't see her emotions and how she would feel about it, but then have her come back and yell at him. We don't need to see again [00:11:00] what she's feeling when she's yelling at him second time. Like, there's, there's no need. We know she's hurt and upset, but his reaction to it and how, because there was something in there of like, she stormed into the office
Like a warrior. And he, he describes it like she's magnificent and so angry and like she scared him and she fascinates him. So seeing that, he's not like a callous person who hates her. He doesn't hate her. But this is just a situation. And, and there's already, you can see there's already some attraction to it, some not like, but, but he, he sort of is interested in her and at this point, and that's also good because.
We from the, like the first scene, what we missed before I read, was him being very cruel to one of his I dunno, clients or something. So you can see that he's kind of a cruel person. He's dry, he is just business, money. He doesn't care about anybody's livelihood. If [00:12:00] somebody owes him money, he's gonna get this money.
So we needed to see that he has some other feelings, not just being this horrible person. And you can see directly that. Oh, this guy will have an arc. Like he needs to get so much better before we can, before we can really root for him.
Katherine Grant: Yeah, that's really interesting.
Katherine Grant: So you read and write widely, what is it that draws you to a historical romance?
Kasia Alba: I think maybe a big factor there might be that
I don't know if you can call it like a first love, because I seriously haven't been reading any romance except for like Jane Austen until 2022. Probably. Like Really? Wow. I started reading Romance after the second season of Bridgerton came out. I basically got obsessed. Like the first one was good. I watched it.
I liked it. [00:13:00] And then the second one came out and I watched it once and I watched it twice and I'm like, this is not enough. I need something else. I went on YouTube and started watching videos about it and people were saying there in the books it was like that. And in the, in the TV show it's like this and it's not, it's different than the books.
I'm like, what books? And I went and I found the whole series. I read the whole series in like in like a month, and then I went. Through the whole Julia Quinn backlist. And then I'm like, whoa, what am I gonna do now? I started looking the authors that she did books with together like these stories where there are anthologies stories.
Yeah, anthologies from different authors. I started looking into those and then I discovered bookstagram and book tube, and then I'm like, whoa, okay. There's a whole world here. And for some time, for like a year, I haven't touched a contemporary romance at all. I was reading historicals and I was happy with it.
I thought I didn't need contemporary at all. Who reads that? This is stupid. And then I think I [00:14:00] just, I read the gateway romance, which was the Bromance Book Club by Lyssa K. Adams. And only because it had the guys reading a historical romance in the book and then using it to better their relationships.
And I was like, whoa, that's interesting. And then from there I went like, Abby Jimenez and like reading others, but still somehow, I am pretty sure I will have more luck with any average historical romance I pick than with an average contemporary. I really don't know why. I think, yeah, one thing is angst.
Yeah. So like sometimes the conflict in contemporary is just so artificial. Like it's artificial. You don't think like, yeah, but really that's not a big deal. It's, it's, it's not so bad. You are not gonna be ostracized from society from this. It's, it's okay, relax. But like in, in historical, sometimes you really feel that, well, this is impossible.
What, what are you [00:15:00] going to do? And even sometimes, like there are more, positive historicals where the ending seems like, whoa, that would never actually work. I mean, it, it is a fantasy, but I'm like, no, but in this, in this society, that would never work. So yeah, I mean, like, I'm more harsh on the, on the constraints in the historical. And some archetypes that, that we fantasize about, like the woman that needs to be saved, you know, damsel in distress and stuff like that, in historicals often there are a lot of women that are powerful and brave and smart and everything, but sometimes it's just a wallflower that is shy and or a spinster on the shelf and, and sometimes it's.
It's just nice and pleasant to read something like this because in contemporary there would be a lot of criticism or like, come on, like we're in the 21st century. Why are we like this? But yeah.
Katherine Grant: Yeah. I think in contemporary, if you encounter a woman [00:16:00] who feels that she needs to be saved, that she can't save herself, there's a sense of, oh, she's giving up power that she already has because in theory
we live with more equality. Whereas with historical, the woman who needs to be saved is living with the level of power that she's been given. And anyone who is saving herself is seizing power. And yeah, maybe that's why it feels a little different.
Kasia Alba: Yeah, I think some of the things that I would like to read about sometimes for comfort in contemporary would be a bit like, well, this heroine is way too weak, and the guy is solving all her problems.
And I'm like, no, but I want that sometimes.
Katherine Grant: All right. Well, I'm curious about your experience watching Bridgerton, not even knowing that there were books, and then discovering the books. How similar were they to the TV show since you came to it from the TV show?[00:17:00]
Kasia Alba: I think, well I started from the beginning and I think the first, like the Duke and I was such a revelation to me because I mean, okay, I, we see a lot of sex on tv and there is a lot of nudity scenes and stuff. I had no idea you can write that in books. I, I was so naive. I'm like, well, yeah, I read Game of Thrones, but that's different, right?
That's often not really pleasant to read actually for a woman. And then I'm reading this and I'm like, whoa, you can do that? And there is so much emotion there and like the, the first book worked way better for me than the first season, even though I think it's more questionable.
Like, you know, there's, there is a bit of an issue with the first book with the consent. I, I noticed the issue, but still the book worked way better for me. I like, I more like books. [00:18:00] Well, Bridgerton season two is great. I mean, I'm not saying anything and I understand why they made the changes because basically books one and two have very similar kind of premise, which is getting married after being discovered.
So we don't wanna do that twice. So that they changed it up. But for me, like in books, I can read 10 of those. I'm, I'm gonna be fine with it.
And since then I'm actually, I'm, I'm very wary of watching romance movies made from the romance novels because it almost always doesn't correspond to my expectations and the emotions are of often cheapened, I would say. I don't know. When you describe it in a book, you understand it completely, but when they try to put it into, onto the screen, it, I don't know.
They, they, they make some moves that just make it silly instead of. It, it looks cheesy and it looks [00:19:00] weird. I don't know. It might be my prejudice. Like against,
Against some romcoms.
Katherine Grant: They're such different formats.
The written form is all about interiority and everything that the person is suppressing and not saying and experiencing inside. Compared with what they want to be experiencing. And film is about visuals and about people interacting with each other or with the environment.
You can't get in their head. So. I think that's one of the reasons why there's often things lost in translation because whatever is the interior monologue somehow has to be externalized for the film, and that we humans, we don't actually share what's going on in our interior monologues.
Kasia Alba: I agree. I think it's either the actor will have to do such hard work to try to like show these emotions with something, or they will try to make it [00:20:00] obvious and it's not gonna look good, basically.
It's gonna look like too much.
Katherine Grant: Yeah. Well, I think it's a good time to move to our game. Love it or leave it.
[Musical Interlude]
Katherine Grant: All right. Do you love it or leave it? Protagonists meet in the first 10% of the story.
Kasia Alba: I love it. Of course. I mean honestly, if they don't meet in the first 10%, what are we actually doing? Is this a romance or what? I, I like backstory, but I don't wanna read like three chapters of only backstory of someone. Nah, that's not interesting to me.
Katherine Grant: All right. Do you love it or leave it? Dual point of view narration.
Kasia Alba: Generally, yes, I love it, but I think it depends on the, on the idea that the author wants to bring. Some books work way better where you, when you don't know what the other person is thinking. So that's when one POV works perfectly fine, but if there is no [00:21:00] reason to hide anything, yeah, dual is great.
Katherine Grant: All right, love it
or leave it? Third person, past tense.
Kasia Alba: Oh, I mean, historical, of course, love it. Like, I don't even know what, what would we do with the first person in historical? I had this conversation with a couple of my guests who are historical romance authors, and I'm like, are, have you ever seen a book written in first person?
And they're like, no. Do you wanna write one? I don't know. I'm scared. Like it's really, it's really, I don't know. Maybe there is one. Maybe I don't know about it.
Katherine Grant: There, there are definitely authors experimenting with it. Vanessa Riley, I think has been writing first person for a while. Ally Hudson I just had on my podcast and she writes in first person. And Lindsay Barrett, that was the other one I had on my podcast. Who, who wrote in first person. So there are definitely people playing around with it. But I've also heard that there's a lot of reader pushback on it.
Kasia Alba: Yeah, it's not, [00:22:00] they're not used to it, I guess, and it's maybe hard to put yourself...
well, I wanted to say that it's hard to put yourself in the shoes of like 17-year-old, like aristocratic lady but also like fantasies and for a person and nobody's an elf or fairy. It's fine, you can do it. But I love, I love third person past tense. Even in, even in contemporary. I'm perfectly fine with it.
I know a lot of people don't like it.
Katherine Grant: Yeah. All right. Do you love it or leave it? Third act breakup or dark moment?
Kasia Alba: Oh, definitely love it. Like I am, I sometimes I read a book that says no third act breakup, and after about 70% it feels like a huge extended epilogue. I'm like, they're just happy. What am I supposed to do with that now?
Like, and I mean, it's okay when there are external circumstances as well that like kidnappings, you know, some danger that's coming to the heroine or the [00:23:00] hero. But I truly actually love when they, when they breakup and I think like yesterday maybe, or the day before, I listened to the Fated Mates episode about third act breakups, and they explained it perfectly.
It's, it's a test for their relationship. If they just started dating and everything's going great, you don't really know if they're gonna be there for the long run, if, if their relationship would stand the test. But if there is a test for, for them externally or internally, then they overcome it and you just feel more satisfaction from it and you know that, whoa, this relationship actually survived this.
And I think without it, I really, I, I don't know what else you can do to make it satisfying in the third act.
Katherine Grant: Right. Alright. Do you love it or leave it? Always end with an epilogue.
Kasia Alba: I love it actually, because I remember a couple of [00:24:00] books where it literally ends on, I love You, I love you too, and I freaking hated that because What do you mean? Like. Tell me something else. I love you. I love you too. And that's it. Like, come on, you, you, it's like a, it's like a romcom, you know?
They hugged, they kissed at the end, they took the camera away and showed the whole big shot and that's it. No, no. That's not enough for me. No.
Katherine Grant: All right. Do you love or leave it? Always read the author's note.
Kasia Alba: Oh yeah, I'm that, I'm that person who, if there's an author's note acknowledgements, anything else I have to read it. I'm not sure, like often it's very interesting, especially in historicals because there's always like some research notes in there or like some historical details and things like that.
Even in contemporary, I read them just because, I don't know, I feel like if I don't, I didn't finish a book. It's a very weird feeling. It's like, no, but I, I didn't finish. I need to, I need to listen to, like, to listen or to read this note. I sometimes [00:25:00] even. I read like the excerpts that they put from like from the future books, it still feels like I have to read it even, even if I don't care about the next book.
It's just, it's just my tick.
Katherine Grant: Alright, and are there any romance rules I didn't ask about that you enjoy seeing authors break?
Kasia Alba: To be honest. I kind of like rules. I like when there is structure. I like when there are tropes and the trope actually delivers on what it is because often people will just name a trope, but then
it's not just a word you need to deliver on it. You need to do what the trope actually says. And, and the same with like no third up breakup. This is for me, the rule that I don't want to be broken and like I'm okay. I'm okay with having it all the time and I don't know, the only thing is I think we should be following rules, but we should be finding new [00:26:00] ways to follow them.
Because if you look at romancing the beat, the, the book with the, that it describes the romance structure. If you follow it like to the point, that's still gonna be a romance, but it can be very boring romance. I've read some of those, which. Technically they're fine, but like there's nothing new about them.
And you need to find new ways to, to, to not break rules, but follow them in, in like twisted interesting, interesting ways. I don't know if that's a good answer because I really, I. I really am.
Katherine Grant: I like that answer. Sure.
No, I, I think that's true. I am currently beating a John Grisham novel, and I don't, I think this is the first John Grisham novel I've read, so I don't really know what to expect from his formula, but I was
expecting this good guy character to continue to be a good guy throughout the book, but I'm beginning to [00:27:00] suspect that the formula is, by the end of the book, he's not a good guy. Mm-hmm.
And
I am really torn. I feel a lot of like actual unease about, I don't really wanna read about him becoming a bad lawyer, but I also like wanna know, maybe he becomes a better guy by the end.
Like maybe that's the catharsis. And, and so I've been thinking about how that relates to being a romance reader and you, there are certain things that you can count on that you want to count on that. That, you know, Preston is going to become a less cruel person by falling in love with Katherine like, like yeah, we know that.
And I wouldn't have this existential, do I read it or not? Problem.
Kasia Alba: Yeah, exactly. I think, I think if any of the very well experienced authors want to break the rules, I think I would trust them [00:28:00] with that. I would just, I have some trust because I've read their books. I know they can do their job very well, and so that would be okay with me.
But there is a lot of like, I know a lot of forums and like Facebook groups and stuff, and a lot of people think that they are so clever. Breaking the rules and the very popular one is, my book is romance, but I want to surprise my readers and not have an HEA at the end. Are you kidding me? Like the, you are not rule breaking, you just don't know what romance is.
So I. Yeah, I mean, I think you can break the rules if you want. You just need to learn how to use them first. Have some books, have readers that trust you, and then you can start to experiment and then I will trust you with this experiment. I don't have to like it, but at least I will consider it.
Katherine Grant: Well, Kasia, I really appreciate you playing.
Love it or leave it and coming on the podcast. Listeners, just a reminder, she read The Bride Goes Rogue by [00:29:00] Joanna Shupe, if you like me, need to know how they recover from this rejection. I believe it's available anywhere you buy books.
Kasia Alba: Yes, it's an amazing book. Seriously. I would start from the beginning because Katherine and Preston both appear in the first and second book in the series.
But yeah, this one's great.
Katherine Grant: Awesome. And Kasia, you are host of Raising Baby Authors. What should my listeners know about your podcast and where they can, where can they find it?
Kasia Alba: Well so where you can find it is easy. So it's called Raising Baby Authors. It's on YouTube Spotify, apple Podcasts, and I think everywhere where you could find podcasts more or less.
And we don't have a website, but I have my Instagram account, which is at KK Alba Books. Just one, one word. I'll give it to you later. And well, the podcast is for two kinds of listeners, so. Primarily it's for other authors who kind of want to learn from more [00:30:00] experienced authors. Basically, anybody who's published books before can come on the podcast and I will ask them questions about their writing process.
And if you are just like interested of how other people do it, is their process similar to yours? Maybe there are some things that you haven't tried. And the other category I would say is maybe, maybe your favorite author comes on on my podcast and you wanna know kind of behind the scenes of how they're creating their stories and characters.
So that also could be interesting to you. So yeah, come on my podcast.
Hope you enjoy it.
Katherine Grant: Thank you so much and thanks for coming on the Historical Romance sampler.
Kasia Alba: Thank you for inviting me.
That's it for this week! Don't forget to subscribe to the Historical Romance Sampler wherever you listen, and follow us on Instagram, TikTok, and YouTube. Until next week, happy reading!