This podcast is a proud affiliate of Libro.fm. By clicking on this banner, we may earn a proceed of any purchases you make, in which case, we thank you very much!
Kate Hershberger Samples Blackpoint
Katherine Grant: Welcome to the historical romance sampler podcast. I'm your host, Katherine Grant, and each week I introduce you to another amazing historical romance author. My guest reads a little sample of their work, and then we move into a free ranging interview. If you like these episodes, don't forget to subscribe to the historical romance sampler, wherever you listen to podcasts and follow us on Instagram, TikTok, and YouTube.
Now let's get into this week's episode.
Katherine Grant : I am super excited to be joined today by Kate Hershberger. Kate is an author of eclectic books about queer women born in South Bend, Indiana. Kate lives in the foothills of North Carolina with her wife and their menagerie of rescue pets. She has written seven novels of various genres and is here today to read from her historical romance.
Blackpoint. Kate, thank you so much for coming on.
Kate Hershberger: Oh, thank you for having me.
Katherine Grant : I'm really excited to hear Blackpoint and to dig into hearing how your creative process works and everything. So is there anything we need to know before you get started with the reading?
Kate Hershberger: So if, just, if you're new to this or not familiar with Blackpoint it's a western of sorts set in the Montana region in the 1800s.
It follows Joseph McNiff, who is the sheriff of this town, Blackpoint, and Cassandra Gibson. Joseph is a half indigenous, half Blackfoot, half Irish person and Cassandra is a woman on the run and kind of stumbles into Blackpoint after having a altercation with her father, so to speak, at the beginning.
So and just for notification, Joseph would be, consider is considered a two-spirit person. So he's a woman living as a man back in, you know, old Western Times. So, but he's only known as Joseph.
Katherine Grant : Okay. I am excited. Alright, so just go ahead and
whenever you're ready. Yeah. Alright. Alright.
Kate Hershberger: A crash of thunder scares me straight up out of bed one night.
My heart hammers in my chest and I have a hard time catching my breath. I've never liked thunderstorms, but this gives me the perfect opportunity to get Joe to hold me again.
"Joe."
Silence.
"Joe, are you awake?"
Lightning flashes and I can see Joe's curtain open and his empty bed roll. I guess he had to go to the outhouse. I wait a few minutes, but he doesn't come back. Worried, I pull the top quilt from the bed, wrap it around my body and head downstairs. The back door that leads to the outhouse is locked up. I check the front of the jailhouse and find a lit oil lamp sitting on Joe's desk.
I wonder if someone came here asking for the sheriff for help and he didn't have time to wake me. Then I smell smoke. I rush out the front door and find Joe sitting on the bench on the front porch, smoking a long pipe decorated with feathers. "Cassie," he says, smoke pouring from his mouth. "You all right?"
"I woke up and you weren't there,"
I say. "The storm scared me."
Joe nods and slides over, patting a spot on the bench for me to sit. I do, curling tighter in the quilt under his arm. "Don't like storms?" Joe asks. A streak of lightning flashes across the sky.
"No," I squeak as the thunder booms above us. "It always reminds me of my daddy when he was angry. He used to tell me that the thunder was God taking his anger out on our sins in heaven."
"Jackass," Joe mutters. The scent of tobacco mixes with the rain falling and it reminds me of autumn.
"I didn't know you smoked," I say.
"I don't," he says, taking another lungful into his mouth. The pipe glows as he sucks in while smoke billows from his nostrils. I must give him an ugly look because he adds, "just once a year during the first thunder of the season."
"Why?"
"To pay respect to him."
"Him who?"
"Thunder," Joe says. "This is a thunder pipe. The Siksika smoke from this pipe to pay respect to thunder during the first storm of spring."
I have so many questions and I don't know where to start.
"Would you like to hear the story of Thunder?" Joe asks.
"Yes, please," I say.
Joe takes another drag from the pipe and then forms his lips into a circle.
I watch in awe as rings of smoke pop from his lips expanding in the air.
"Thunder is everywhere. He roars in the mountains and he can be heard crashing. Far out on the prairie. He strikes the high rocks and they fall to pieces. He strikes a tree and it is broken in slivers. He strikes a person and they die.
He's bad. Of all things, he is the most powerful. He cannot be resisted. But the worst thing about him is that sometimes he takes away women."
"He what?" I ask. Suddenly a new reason to fear the storm.
"Long ago," Joe continues. "A man and his wife were sitting in their home when Thunder came and struck them. The man was not killed.
He was knocked out for a while, but he eventually woke up and looked around. He did not see his wife. At first, he thought she had left to get food or water, so he waited. But when night came, he went outside and asked the people about her. No one had seen her. He looked all through the camp, but could not find her.
He knew that the thunder had taken her away, so he went out on the hills to mourn. He sat there all night trying to think what he might do to get his wife back. When morning came, he began to wander. Whenever he met any animals, he asked if they could tell him where Thunder lived.
The animals laughed. Most of them would not answer. Wolf said to him, ' do you think that we would look for the home of the one we fear? He is our only danger. All other enemies, we can run away, but no one can run from him. He strikes and there we lie, turn back and go home.'
The man kept traveling a long distance. At last, after many days he came to a stone lodge.
The man entered and found it was the home of the Raven Chief. 'Welcome friend. Sit down,' said the chief of the Ravens. He pointed to a place and the poor man was fed. When he had finished eating, the Raven Chief asked, 'why have you come here?'
'Thunder has stolen my wife,' the man answered. 'I'm looking for his home so that I may find her.'
'Are you brave enough to enter the lodge of that dreadful person?' Asked the Raven. 'He lives near here. His lodge is of stone like this one. And hanging in it are eyes.'"
"Eyes?" I ask, horrified.
Joe continues. "'The eyes are the eyes of those he has killed or taken away, said the raven Chief. ' Now, do you dare to enter there?'
'I am afraid,' answered the man. ' Who could look at such dreadful things?'
'No man can,' said the raven. 'There is only one that thunder fears. There is only one he cannot kill. It is us, the ravens. I will give you some medicines so he cannot harm you when you enter his lodge.
Try to find your wife's eyes. If you find them, tell the thunder why you came and make him give them to you. Take this wing, point this at him. He will be afraid and back away. If that doesn't work, take this arrow. Its shaft is made of Elkhorn. Take this and shoot it through the lodge.'
'Are you trying to make a fool of me?'
The poor man asked. 'My heart is broken.' He covered his face and wept.
'Hoho,' said the Raven, 'you do not believe me. Come inside and I will make you believe.'
When they stood outside, the Raven asked, 'is the home of your people far?'
'A great distance,' said the man.
'How many days have you traveled?'
'I was too sad,' the man said. 'I did not count the days since I left.
The berries have grown and ripened.'
'Can you see your camp from here?' asked the raven. The man did not answer. Then the raven rubbed some medicine on his eyes and said, look, the man looked and saw the camp. It was near. He saw the people. He saw the smoke rising from the lodges, and he saw the painting on some of the lodges.
'Now you believe,' said the raven. 'Take the arrow and the wing and go get your wife.'
The man took these things and went to Thunder's Lodge. He entered and sat down by the doorway. The Thunder sat at the back of the lodge and looked at him with awful eyes. The man looked above and saw many pairs of eyes hanging.
Among them were those of his wife. 'Why have you come?" asked the Thunder in a dreadful voice.
'I seek my wife,' said the man. 'You stole her from me. Her eyes hang there.'
'No man may enter my lodge and live,' said the thunder, and he rose to attack. The man pointed the raven wing at the thunder. Thunder fell back on his bed and shivered.
He rose again and the man fitted the elk corn arrow onto his bow and shot it through the lodger stone, right through that stone. It pierced a hole and let the sunlight in. 'Wait,' said the thunder. 'Stop. You're stronger, you have greater medicine. You shall have your wife take her eyes back.'
The man cut the string that held his wife's eyes and his wife stood beside him.
Said thunder, 'you know me, I have great power. In summer, I live here, but when winter comes, I go far south. I go south with the birds. Here's my pipe. It has strong power. Take it and keep it. After this, when I first come in the spring, you shall fill this pipe and light it and you shall smoke it and pray to me, you and the people.
I bring the rain, which makes the berries large and ripe. I bring the rain, which makes all things grow. And for this, you shall pray to me, you and all the people. That is why we smoke the thunder pipe,'" Joe says. "Do you understand?"
I nod. "I like your thunder story much better than the one my daddy used to tell me."
"It's not my story," he says. "It's the story of thunder passed down from elders to their children so we can continue to pay proper respect to the creators."
"Joe," I say. Another crack of thunder claps above, but I'm not afraid anymore.
"Mm-hmm."
"If Thunder took me, would you fight him?"
"Yes," he says, without pause.
"Would you know which eyes were mine?"
"I know them. Even if all the eyes undertook were blue." His words make my heart flutter. I want to kiss him, but I don't want to taste the smoke. I settle for a kiss on his cheek. His arm tightens around my shoulders. The sound of the rain hitting the porch roof is soothing and I feel like I could fall asleep just like this.
Katherine Grant : What a sweet scene. I have a lot of questions for you, but first we're gonna take a quick break for our sponsors.
Katherine Grant : I am back with Kate Hershberger, who just read a scene from Blackpoint, her historical American West novel, and I have a lot of different directions that I wanna go, but I wanna start with the scene you read mm-hmm.
Is very interesting for a couple of reasons. The first being that it's kind of a story within a story, right? So. This myth that you're presenting us? Mm-hmm. Is it a real Blackfoot myth? And how did you think about approaching the Blackfoot culture for your work?
Kate Hershberger: It is, it is a real Blackfoot myth.
I've always loved the way indigenous people have told stories and their myths and mythology and whatnot. It's always really fascinated me even as a kid. And when I knew I was, when I realized Joe was going to be part or at least half Blackfoot, I definitely wanted to bring something of his culture into that.
And Cassie's upbringing is very toxic and filled with a lot of fear and whatnot. So I wanted her to be able to see a different approach to how things work in the world. And then she was able to see something that maybe, it's not necessarily scary, it's just different. And like I said, at the end, she kind of comes to, I like your story a lot better than
what I always heard. So I wanted the way to bring some, like I said, in of Joe's culture, so to speak, into the novel and actually it be something correct too, especially using, well, not using, but him being Blackfoot, I wanted to make sure it was correct and that it paid proper respect to those people as well.
Katherine Grant : So were you already familiar with this myth and the Blackfoot culture, or did you start doing the research once you figured out that this character Joe was gonna be part Blackfoot?
Kate Hershberger: Well, I knew Joe was going to be half indigenous in one way or the other.
And I don't know what made me choose Montana for whatever reason just popped in my head, so I picked that one, but I, I know Blackfoot are part of that region, so that's why I picked that culture.
I did a lot of, I mean, just online research looking up the Blackfoot tribe. I looked up
specifically Blackfoot myths or stories. And then that one with the Thunder came up and I really just thought, oh, that'd be a really cool way to kind of bring these two characters together and closer. So that's kind of where that came from, kind of brought it all together on its own through the research, which I'm actually really bad at research normally.
But this one was really interesting to do, especially with anything indigenous, I wanted to make sure I got it right and was respectful of that, of that tribe and culture and make sure everything was okay.
Katherine Grant : Yeah, yeah, that's, that's, I mean, I think that's one of the things that historical romance often does for us authors and writers is that like doing the research kind of opens up the creative process sometimes.
Right. You write across different genres. Mm-hmm. So do you know what made you inspired you to write this historical romance and, and like what hooked you into that?
Kate Hershberger: I tend to, whenever I'm reading, I usually am on like a kick of something. So like for a while I'll be on a kick of historical romance and then I'll be on a kick of, you know, urban fantasy.
So that's kind of what happens is whatever I've been reading a lot of, I tend to want to write in that genre. And at the time I had been reading a lot of obviously historical romance. A lot of ones featuring a female character, living as a man. Jay has that Backwards to Oregon series, which is really fantastic.
Luke Dreamer had a series called The Heart Series, which followed the same thing, a woman living as a man, but it was on the Yukon Trail. So it, it just, all those things. And I've always been fascinated a lot with women who back in history who did live as men mm-hmm.
And disguise themselves as men to live back then, because if I were living back then, I probably would've done the same thing. So it is always something very fascinating to me, even as a kid. So it's kind of all tied together.
Katherine Grant : Yeah, no, that's really interesting. I mean, and that trope is kind of an old trope that we see throughout historical romance for sure.
And I'm sure like in historical fiction. But I think it has often been a, a trope to explore, kind of cis feminist stuff. Mm-hmm. Of like, oh, wearing pants is freeing. Right. If I were allowed to wear pants too. Right. You know, something that we need to explore. But I, I think a lot of times the question of like, well, maybe gender isn't binary has been left out of the conversation.
Kate Hershberger: Right. Yeah. There's all kinds of elements to that that could have benefited, not just, well, I don't wanna wear a dress, I just wanna wear pants.
Katherine Grant : okay. Another thing from the scene that you read that stood out to me is it's first person present tense, which I don't know that I've encountered in historical romance so far.
So I'm excited about that. And I'd love to hear how do you approach decisions like perspective and then also tense.
Kate Hershberger: I'm, I'm a bit, I tend to be one to jump. So like the, the book does go back and forth between Joe and Cassie's perspectives and it's both in first person present tense.
I feel like I'm just better at writing that kind of viewpoint and tense. I, I've only done a few books in like third person past tense and I'm trying to kind of work on expanding that and trying to do it a bit more. But I tend to do it more like from the character's perspective and in present tense, just to keep things fast paced and moving.
And I think it tends to be, to me, more exciting when it's from the character themselves. Yeah. So that's kind of just how I, how I do it. I didn't realize it wasn't really a normal thing in historical fiction, I guess, and it never really clicked in my head.
Katherine Grant : Are there more historical romances brewing inside of you?
Kate Hershberger: At the moment, no. I don't ever wanna say, like, never say never or anything like that. Because, because I would love to explore more options. There's always ideas in my head where I'm like, I'd love to write this, I'd love to write that.
And so I, I'd love to write a pirate novel, so maybe one day, you know. But at the moment, no. I've been reading a lot of contemporary romance. I just released a contemporary romance novel and I wanna write another one now. So there's that. And then there's other things I've planned, and in my head I've got 20 different ideas that I need to actually
tell to be quiet and focus on one at a time. But yeah, I would love to go back. I've had people actually say they like a sequel to Blackpoint. I don't know how I would do that, or I, 'cause to me, I feel like their story's done and been told I wouldn't mind going back, but I just don't know how I would bring a, a story, maybe, maybe a short story or something I could do.
But at the, at the moment, I don't have any plans for anymore historical fiction at the moment.
Katherine Grant : Yeah. Did you find writing historical romance to open up or close off different parts of your creativity that's different from writing a contemporary romance or a paranormal romance?
Kate Hershberger: I would say no.
I think it just gave me a different perspective maybe so to speak. I think one thing I had to remember was what. What existed then? What, what didn't exist and what was okay and not, and like I definitely like dating today isn't what courting would be back then. So you have to remember, you know, you have to remember it's not dating, it's courting, it's this, it's that.
What would be considered appropriate then? What we would consider appropriate today wanna be considered that then. So I think it was just a different perspective of how things were. So there's that, and they kind of, the whole thing kind of goes against the grain. That's the whole point of Blackpoint,
the town of Blackpoint, is it's a bunch of misfits have kind of come to this little town and sort of made it their own. So no one's quite following the rules. So I, in a way it worked, but I, I think I got to cheat a little bit and make it work. Yeah. One thing I noticed too during my research was I wanted to use the word two spirit to describe Joe.
'cause later on when he's, when Cassie figures out what exactly who he is. And she's like talking to people and they give her an idea of what... I wanted to use that word to describe it, but I found out the word two-spirit actually didn't become a thing really until the nineties. Oh, wow. So, yeah, I'm, and I'm sure.
They had their words for it. The Blackfoot had their words for it back then, and every tribe had their own word, but I guess it didn't become, I guess, a mainstream common word or English word I should say, maybe until like the 1990s, which was, so I had to go back and change a few things back then in the book and make sure I had the right words to use for it at the time.
Katherine Grant : Yeah. Oh, that's really interesting. Mm-hmm. I wouldn't have guessed that.
Kate Hershberger: Yeah.
Katherine Grant : So you, so you mentioned a couple of specific authors who mm-hmm. In inspired this book. Mm-hmm. And you mentioned that for any given book you're inspired by like what you've been reading.
Right. But are there any overarching, authors or other creative influences that what you would say kind of are your, like the, the. Lifetime influences on you?
Kate Hershberger: Yeah, definitely. One of my favorite, one of the ones that inspired me to kind of to write was Jody Picoult. I'm not sure if you're familiar with her.
Katherine Grant : I wanted to be her when I grew up..
Kate Hershberger: Exactly, I did too!. Like, I, I got into her in high school and was like, I, I wanna write books like her. And so she's kind of the one that really inspired me to sort of write from the different character perspectives. So she was definitely a big inspiration. I know I don't have a, like my first novel isn't necessarily considered sapphic fiction.
It's more, I'd say more testament to Jody Picoult influence on my writing over the years.
Katherine Grant : Yeah, that's, that's so interesting. 'cause I loved her mm-hmm in high school, and I, I went to study creative writing and mm-hmm.
I was, I would cite her as like the writer I wanted to be. Right. And I was in this creative writing degree program at a prestigious university. And so then they were like being snobbish about, yeah, yeah. Oh yeah, she's, no, she's not good enough. So then I, then I, I'm like still unprocessing the shame that I internalized for liking her.
Kate Hershberger: I, I went through the same thing. I went through creative writing too in college and it, and when we, we would do stuff and I would use that, that different characters, narrating, so to speak. Mm-hmm. And I, I'd have some, some people be like, oh, I can tell you, you mentioned Jody Picoult. I can tell you really liked her because of how you write, which I was kind of an honor.
And, but then you get the other people that are like, oh, I only read like Kerouac or whatever, you know, all these people. It's like, relax, you know? Yeah. Calm down. It's not that serious.
Katherine Grant : Yeah, absolutely. And in fact. Jody Picoult is such an influence, right? She, she does such a good job of introducing different viewpoints on Exactly.
Complex topics. Yeah. Yeah. All right. Well, I think it's a good time to move to our game. Love it or leave it.
[Musical Interlude]
Katherine Grant : Do you love it or leave it? Protagonists meet in the first 10% of the story.
Kate Hershberger: I would say love it. If there's the two characters, I want as much of them together as I can get, so I love it.
Katherine Grant : All right. Do you love it or leave it? Dual point of view narration.
Kate Hershberger: Oh, obviously love it.
Katherine Grant : Do you love it or leave it? Third person, past tense.
Kate Hershberger: I'll take whatever the author will give me. I'd say Love it. Whatever the author writes, I'm gonna read it, so I'm good.
Katherine Grant : All right. Do you love it or leave it? The third act, dark moment.
Kate Hershberger: Ooh. If it's done well, I love it. There's lots of times I, it's done like that third act breakup and it's half the time it's just a communication error. If you just sat down and talked for five minutes, like grownups, this wouldn't be an issue.
But if it's done well, I would say love it. So it, I could go either way.
Katherine Grant : Alright. Do you love it or leave it? Always end with an epilogue.
Kate Hershberger: I love an epilogue, so I'll say love it. If I don't think they're always necessary, but I do love when I see one.
Katherine Grant : Nice. Do you love it or leave it? Always share research in your author's note.
Kate Hershberger: I, I love it. I do love it. I'm horrible about writing an author's note, so I, I'm not really good about doing that all the time, but I do love it seeing from other authors.
Katherine Grant : All right. And are there any other rules I didn't ask about that you like to break?
Kate Hershberger: See, I don't even know what the rules are, so, apparently, so I, I mean, anything is worth a challenge to try, so I, I don't know if everything, especially with writing or any kind of art, it doesn't need to stay in a bubble.
It does there, I don't think rules are really needed necessarily. If anything's done and done well, it can be accomplished so. That's my, yeah.
Katherine Grant : Love it. Well, thank you so much, Kate. Where can our listeners find you and your books?
Kate Hershberger: I have a website katehershberger.com. My books can be found on Amazon and barnes and noble.com.
And I think the only real proper social media I'm on is Instagram and it's at Kate Hirshberg. Anything else?
I think if there's any other links or anything like that, it can be found on my website.
Katherine Grant : Awesome. And I'll put your website in the show notes so listeners, all you have to do is go click through. Okay. Thank you. Kate, thank you so much. This has been a really great conversation. I, I appreciate you coming on.
Kate Hershberger: Oh yeah. Thank you for having me. I've, I had a lot of fun.
That's it for this week! Don't forget to subscribe to the Historical Romance Sampler wherever you listen, and follow us on Instagram, TikTok, and YouTube. Until next week, happy reading!