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Kathy L Wheeler Samples The Duke's Detour
Katherine Grant: Welcome to the historical romance sampler podcast. I'm your host, Katherine Grant, and each week I introduce you to another amazing historical romance author. My guest reads a little sample of their work, and then we move into a free ranging interview. If you like these episodes, don't forget to subscribe to the historical romance sampler, wherever you listen to podcasts and follow us on Instagram, TikTok, and YouTube.
Now let's get into this week's episode.
I'm very excited to be joined today by Kathy L Wheeler. Kathy is an award-winning author of some 40 plus contemporary and historical romance novels and novellas that range from sweet to spicy. Her courageous heroines save themselves. Their heroes just need to be there to catch them after the fact. She loves the NFL, NBA, musical theater, travel, reading, writing, and karaoke.
She and her musically talented husband live in the Pacific Northwest with their lovable and neurotic dog, angel, who mostly lives up to her name. Kathy, thank you so much for coming on today.
Kathy Wheeler: Thank you for having me.
Katherine Grant: Yeah, I am really excited to get a chance to talk to you, and first we're gonna hear a sample from the Dukes detour.
What should we know about the story and the scene that you're gonna read?
Kathy Wheeler: So it's really from the beginning of the story. I will preface this by saying I've limit, I've cut out a little bit of the description stuff just to, for time-wise. But it really sets up, to me, sets up the conflict and between the hero and heroine and the driving forces behind it while it, you'll see what I mean.
Katherine Grant: Great. Well, I'm excited, so you can take it away whenever you want.
Kathy Wheeler: Okay. It appeared Lady Rebecca Thatcher had the Rolling Meadow to herself, except for three gentlemen who had stepped out of their club- or so she believed. A young boy flew at her from his hiding place from behind a huge oak and hugged her legs.
"Mama, mama!" Rebecca opened her mouth to ask him what the devil he was about, but instantly caught sight of a harsh looking individual bearing down on her. Them. She wrapped an arm around the boys thin shoulders and waited until she was certain the man was close enough to hear. "Where have you been,
young man? I've been beside myself trying to find you."
His blue eyes flashed with gratitude. I'm sorry, mama. He lowered his gaze and a brilliant show of contriteness. His once white shirt was gray and tattered. "I'll lock you in the school room, I will, if you ever pull a step like that again. Do you understand?"
She said shaking him lightly. The man pulled up before her and she tightened her hold on the boy. The vile villains nostrils flared from a thin and pointed nose. His cheeks flushed a ruddy red. Black eyes, small and deep set, narrowed on her.
"This here is your child?"
Rebecca thrust her shoulders back and pulled to her full height, barely to his shoulders, some inches over five feet.
Two if one were exacting. Keeping a firm grip on the child, she eased him behind her and faced the man straight on. "Indeed he is," she said in her haughtiest imitation of one of her most challenging governesses she'd grown up with, effectively shutting out the ghostly tendril memories of her first and favorite Miss
Lowe. "And just who might you be, sir?"
He reached toward her. She scuttled back out of his reach. "That boy don't belong to you," he growled. "Ain't no one outsmarts Finch Cromwell."
She committed the name to memory, eyeing the young gentleman across the park and raised her voice. "Unhand me, sir!"
The volume had the intended effect, and the young men hurried in her direction.
The villain sneered. "This ain't over," he hissed. Just like that, he melted away.
"What is the meaning of this?" The tallest one asked. "Are you unharmed, madam?"
"Of course I am," she said, muting her irritation. Rebecca Thatcher was not a woman usually in need of rescuing. The proof of which she carried in her reticule in the form of a very fine, very sharp dagger.
The young man glanced about, then settled his gaze back on her. "You ought not to be out here alone, ma'am. This here is a dangerous area for a young lady." There was condescension in his voice that rippled across her skin, but she reigned in her tour. After all, she was the one who had called out.
"Thank you.
But I've been looking for my son." She glanced over her shoulder. Finch Cromwell was nowhere to be seen. His complete and utter disappearance sent a shudder over her.
The man frowned. "Shall I call a hack?"
Behind her, the boy stiffened and attempted to wrest from her hold. "That won't be necessary," she said to the young man, maintaining a solid grip on the child.
"My carriage is just in front of the lecture hall."
"Shall we accompany you In the event that scallywag returns?"
The boy quit fighting her hold and froze.
"That would be lovely," she said, smiling. "Shall we, my dear?" She directed to her new charge. His lips pressed into a a petulant line. He knew he was outnumbered
if he attempted to run. The troupe reached her carriage and she handed the boy up. "Stay here a minute, Barrett," she said to her driver. Thanking the young men, she climbed in and took the seat across from the boy. "Would you care to tell me what this is all about?"
Nothing.
"All right, then. Where are you from?"
Nothing. Lips tighter perhaps.
"Your name?"
Nothing.
"A Constable might assist us, or a doctor since you seem to have lost your ability to talk."
"We can't leave. Not yet." His hurried words were succinct, and, though he was young, educated, so he wasn't from the streets.
"And why is that?"
Something nudged the carriage, and his small frame seemed to heave a huge sigh of relief.
The carriage shook again, and Rebecca knew that Barrett had taken care of whatever it was that had shaken the conveyance in the first place. The door opened, and Barrett held up an identical version of the child sitting across from her.
"Good heavens." She breathed. "There are two of you."
She shook her head.
"Toss him in, Barrett."
"Naturally." Barrett set the child gently to his feet inside and shut the door. The boy took his place next to his brother and they clasped hands. She glanced at the first boy. "I take it he is what rather who we were waiting on."
He nodded.
"Let us start again. Your names, if you please."
Boy number one did the talking.
"I'm Oliver and this here is my brother Owen."
"It's nice to meet you both. I'm Lady Rebecca. Now tell me, where are we going?"
The boys looked at one another then back at her, their eyes wide. Oliver, the apparent designated speaker, said, "We'd like to go home, please."
"And where is home, pray tell?"
"Somerset, my lady."
"Somerset?"
She sucked in a sharp breath. "Well, that is a two day drive, young man. How on earth did you end up in London?"
Oliver's mouth tightened into a line she was already starting to associate with what was a stubborn side of him. Rebecca held a long breath, looking out the window before letting it out. Owen had yet to utter a word.
"Somerset."
She drummed her gloved fingers on her knee and faced them. "All right. I shall escort you to Somerset. You won't mind if we locate some clean clothes for you."
Oliver- or was it Owen?- Nodded.
"Will that dastardly man be chasing us?"
They looked at one another than back at her. Oliver shook his head.
"That's something,
anyway." She lifted the trap. "The house, please, Barrett."
Rebecca ushered her charges into the house. She stripped off her bonnet, handing it to Lars, the Rivers' stately butler. Her gloves came next, and the atmosphere in the hall riddled in shock.
Oliver's eyes widened in horror. "Cor' what happened to your arm, my lady?"
Rebecca glanced down at the unsightly scarring located just above her wrist on the inside. It covered a good portion of her forearm and had gotten infected at the time. She never forgot how lucky she was that papa hadn't allowed the surgeon to take the hack saw to her unsightly limb.
"I saved a friend from a monster." Due to the break in her wrist she'd sustained at the time, she'd acquired an uncanny predilection of foul weather since the disaster.
"Did you kill him? I hope you killed him," oliver said.
"No, but I knocked him Insensible. Something you would do well to remember." She led them
up the stairs to the first level. "Are you hungry?"
"Famished, my lady," Oliver answered for the two of them. A niggling suspicion was taking hold, but Rebecca squelched her questions and addressed the butler.
"A tray for two hungry boys, lars. Any messages?"
"Just one, my lady, from Lady Hanley."
Gabriela. Rebecca snatched her friends missive from the butler.
She'd recently married, though Rebecca hadn't been able to attend. In any event, Rebecca had thought her still on her honeymoon. "Have a bath drawn for the boys," she said absently.
"A bath?" Oliver's voice was a high pitched squeal.
"If I'm to ride in a carriage with you all the way to Somerset, I insist on a bath.
Am I quite clear on this?"
"Yes, ma'am," he replied meekly. She looked at Owen, who stared back his blue eyes, watchful, nary a word passing his lips, but nodding all the same. That was something anyway.
"Come along then. Food first." She decided the library would hold more fascination for two boys rather than her father's stuffy formal dining room.
"Blimey," Oliver said when they walked in.
Bookcases from floor to ceiling covered every wall and circular stairs went to a second level to yet more books. Grinning at Oliver's surprise, she took a seat. "Spectacular, isn't it? Feel free to peruse about. You're not gonna hurt anything." She glanced down, reminded by the note she still held and broke the seal.
My dearest rebecca, I thought you might come for a visit. I miss our midnight chats and it's been years. There's much to share. Please say you'll come. I'm in Dorchester and I refuse to take no for an answer. I shall see you soon and patiently awaiting Gabriela.
Rebecca turned the missive over. The note was cryptic at best. Years
indeed. Their last midnight chat was seven years ago, the night before their joint come out ball. It had only been six months prior that the two of them were whisked away from Miss Greensley School of Comport for Young Ladies of Quality. And why the devil was Gabriela in Dorchester?
Rebecca reread the note. Definitely south, not north. Leaving Rebecca more than curious. Frankly, she didn't trust any of the nobility when it came to its upstanding members. Dorchester was located south, south of Somerset. So a visit to her friend should conveniently work out after delivering the boys.
From there, she would return to expert her own home rather than London. She moved to the escritoire and penned a quick note to Gabriela and another to her father, letting him know of her change in plans. Papa would hardly notice of her absence besides. The door opened and the housekeeper entered with the tray.
The boys pounced.
Duke of Riley, Grovesnor's Square.
Sebastian Linwood, the Duke of Riley for almost two years now, was tired. Anyone who read a list of his titles that also included the Marquess of Dorsett, Viscount Woodford, and a military rank of Admiral of the Fleet in the Royal Navy would hardly disagree.
He was rather proud of that last one as he'd earned it rather than been born to it. Though he was pragmatic enough to recognize his need for control and structure. Such traits played a key role in why he'd taken so well to the military lifestyle. He abhorred chaos. Sebastian picked up the note from his sister Gabriela, the recent Countess of Henley and read.
Dearest Seb.
I'm in Dorchester and I've invited my friend, Lady Rebecca Thatcher, to visit you. Remember her? You refused to marry her after kissing her in the garden during my come out ball? Incidentally, Seb, I no longer wish to be Countess Countess of Huntley. He is not the husband I thought him to be. Don't worry in the least about me, I shall be fine.
Your younger and dearest sister G.
Katherine Grant: Wow. Dun dun.
Alright, well I've got lots of questions for you, but first we're gonna take a quick break for our sponsors.
Katherine Grant: All right, I'm back with Kathy L Wheeler, who just read from the Dukes detour and that had quite the cliffhanger. I was not ready for that chapter to end. So one thing that struck me about this scene that you read is kind of the.
The Loretta Chase vibes of like these children happening upon Rebecca. And she's just like, okay, well I guess that I'm helping you. And it's so clear they're gonna just like, you know, wreak havoc on her life, but in the best way possible. Is Loretta Chase one of your big influences?
Kathy Wheeler: Yes, indeed she is. She's fantastic.
Katherine Grant: That's great. And there's also, in this passage, the setup of a couple of mysteries.
These boys, they're educated. They're running around this park. They're trying to get away from Finch Cromwell. And, so there's that piece of intrigue and then there's what's going on with Gabriela.
Do you find what's your take on why romance and intrigue or suspense go so well together?
Kathy Wheeler: I just love the twists that you can put in and straight romance. I think it has to be written really, really well, but I don't like being bashed over the head with them. Right. So I think, I always think that suspense elements really puts the hero and heroine in a position where they end up on a quest together eventually, because, Hmm.
As you read in my bio, the courageous heroines who save themselves, the hero just needs to be there to catch them after the fact, which I find is one of the traits that goes in my contemporary and my historical. They just do even and unlikely heroine.
Katherine Grant: Yeah. So instead of them being on separate quests that end up
leading them to each other. You like to put them on kind of the same quest and that's how they end up together.
Kathy Wheeler: Yes. Although I would say that the book I'm working on now is not quite working out like that.
Katherine Grant: The best laid plans.
Kathy Wheeler: Yes.
Katherine Grant: I read a blog post that you wrote that's kind of an author's note talking about you. You described your romances as somewhat dark with a beacon of light at the end, and that they are dealing with that. I think you were describing them as dark because they deal with some dark topics. So I wanted to ask you about that and how do you approach bringing, you know, human trafficking and domestic violence onto the page in the romance genre?
Kathy Wheeler: It's so strange because I don't necessarily intend that, but when you're looking for something... I think today's climate also plays into a lot. That helplessness that I feel like we're being led back to that is so kind of disheartening. And I actually saw a review that somebody did on my story that said that very thing.
These are situations that apply now as well as then, and I don't think I intended I do write a little bit funny. You can tell. I feel like you can tell with that kid, he's snarky, he's a snarky little kid. But why doesn't the other kid talk, you know, what did he see? If that, you know, can he talk you? And I just feel like there.
It just happens. It just happens.
Katherine Grant: Mm-hmm. Yeah. And so I guess that's a good question. For you, you've written over 40 books. What pulls you into a story so that, you know, this is the story I wanna write, and maybe for like the beginning of a series, like what makes you think, oh, that's. Like, are you pulled by dialogue in your head?
Do you have characters that excite you? Do you get kind of inspired by plot ideas?
Kathy Wheeler: So, so that's a really interesting question 'cause I will tell you that I have this contemporary series and the first book is called Quotable and I'm, I was standing in the line at Borders and. They had books that were stacked.
To instead of dividers, right? They were using stacks of books and there was this book called Quotation. And I'm like standing there in line and I'm going, oh, this would be a great first line. So I did. And so the girl uses obscure quotes to keep people from getting close to, she's a brainiac.
Katherine Grant: Hmm.
Kathy Wheeler: There's a little bit of a dark thing in there, but she was treated horribly and her parents died like on her high school graduation day.
I mean, it's really awful. 'Cause sometimes I think I don't have enough of, this was when I first started and now it's too much. That's, I think it's too much. I'm like, this is too busy. But that's one thing. But initially how I got started was the. The Cinderella series, it's sweet. 'cause I can't see Cinderella having sex and it was Cinderella.
I saw a prompt on Google and it said, what a Cinderella slipper fit one of the evil stepsisters. I'm like, oh, I love Cinderella. I could do that. So I did. And then it was only 13,000 words. Margo Lipschultz from Harlequin looked at it 'cause I didn't know anything. This is way, way back. And she said, I love the ending.
The twist is great, but POV...I knew nothing, nothing. I had just joined RWA at the time, it was 2006, seven, and. I ended up writing the three books, the Three Sisters, the Stepmother's Evil, all the way through. But why? Then you're getting these reviews and they're like, we need to know what happens to the evil stepmother.
So she's on her deathbed and I, and I write that book. So it's like back in time with the three sisters coming and they're with her and you learn all these things and what? It was crazy. I remember how I said that things kind of just fall in place. I wrote that story and everything I did in those first three books played out perfect.
I don't know how. And the only thing I had to do is go back and give the stepmother a title. That was it. Everything Worked.
Katherine Grant: And speaking of inspirations, you also mentioned that you love musical theater and I'm in New York, and I, I also love musical theater. So I wanna ask, first of all, have you had any inspiration from musicals that have worked their way into your work?
Kathy Wheeler: I played
a nun in the Sound of Music at small theater a few years back, and the drama that goes on behind there is insane. And you had the seven kids, right? And then the nuns were not none like at all. We were crazy. In fact, one girl was an artist and her last name was Wheeler. I can't remember her first name. And this was before I started writing and I was just like, oh my gosh, we couldn't let the kids in because somebody brought silly putty.
We had to lock the kids up, but we were laughing our butts off of this thing. And she, you know, she sculpted and it was really funny and it's obscene, but it was very funny. But, so I did, I thought, oh, that would be really fun to do a story like that. I started one and I think it would go too dark because there's, because there's a lot of sexism behind the scenes.
I found that and I thought, yeah,
Katherine Grant: so I'm, so there's something about when you find something funny, you then end up kind of seeing, oh, this humor is covering something that's very dark. And so because you're, you're kind of, you, you lead with the humor, then you're like, oh, wait, but I can't look away.
Kathy Wheeler: Yeah.
I like comedy because it's, it's dark, but, and I, and I do think that I end up with funny dialogue, but it does cover something. And I really hadn't thought about it in that light, but you're exactly right.
And it, it really does cover a lot. We have to do what we have to, to survive and Yeah. I actually, in the Marquess's Misstep, the heroine in that book has a braying laugh that's very off putting. And somebody on a review said they didn't like her character at all. But to me it, she's covering up and it shows and it, it's why, and I think you just said why.
Mm-hmm. Because she, yeah. Yeah. And I didn't even realize it writing it, but that's exactly, I knew that she was doing it. It's still there. She's just has I just find it interesting. Yeah, I, I'll tell you what I do bring in for sure is these kids and I do it in my contemporary as well, where they're.
Maybe a 5-year-old who sounds about 20. Because I and a girl at work, I worked at Hertz and she, she read this one book I had and she said, I don't think a 5-year-old would talk like that. And I said she didn't have my five-year-old. My daughter was way too old and it was my fault because we, I got divorced when she was two.
I was like, I need your help. I can't do it all by myself. And it was just the two of us. And she is now 45. She has two boys and she is a special ed teacher and she's a fantastic special ed teacher for very difficult special needs kids. And I see, how I raised her and how she talks to these kids.
It's just, I don't know, it, it really squeezes your heart because I see what I did and my influence. It's really fascinating.
Katherine Grant: Hmm. That's beautiful. Thank you. When thinking about Broadway musicals and historical romance, is there anything that they're both doing that's a reason why you like them both. So is are they doing the same thing for you or are they doing different things for you?
Kathy Wheeler: No, I think that they absolutely fill a need in me that, and that sports does the same thing.
What's heartbreaking about that is somebody has to lose, you know? But there's a winner and a loser and that makes it, that makes that tough. Unless you have your absolute favorite team, which I do, you know, but. It's kind of sad sometimes it makes me cry because it's the ending music they would play at the basketball games, the Oklahoma City Thunder, and, and it would be like bump, bump that Black Eyed Peas'.
I have a feeling, you know, I would start crying at the end because you're bouncing up and down 'cause you won. And then, you know, it's just that what it does. I've gotten so emotional. It's ridiculous.
Katherine Grant: So, is it fair to say that historical romance, Broadway, and sports all deliver big emotions or crystallize nuances into big emotions for you, and that's what you are responding to and loving about it?
Kathy Wheeler: Yes. Absolutely. All right, so I'm a picky reader, you know. Most, most writers are picky readers. You have those things that tug at you, especially once you start delving into the craft and how to snag them by the emotions. Most of my reviews, you know, you're gonna find mistakes and stuff, but they're like, oh my gosh, I was gonna just read this every night and I couldn't even clean the house because I had to
read it all night. She literally wrote that and I was like, okay. That's nice.
Katherine Grant: Yeah. All right. Well, I think it's a good time to play. Love it. Or leave it.
[Musical Interlude]
Katherine Grant: Do you love it or leave it? Protagonist meet in the first 10% of the story.
Kathy Wheeler: I love it. I think it's very important.
Yep.
Katherine Grant: Do you love it or leave it? Dual point of view narration.
Kathy Wheeler: Yes.
Love it.
Katherine Grant: Love it or leave it? Third person past tense narration.
Kathy Wheeler: Prefer that. Absolutely.
Katherine Grant: Do you do that in your contemporaries as well?
Kathy Wheeler: Yes. Although I will say that in, in one series I went back and put it in first person and it was hard because as it what First person?
Present tense. First person present tense. You know.
Yeah, it's
tough.
Katherine Grant: Yeah.
All right. Do you love it or leave it? The third act dark moment.
Kathy Wheeler: I think third act usually my dark moments happen at the third act, right at the beginning of the third act, but at first when I read this question, I was thinking.
Like a third time black moment. 'cause I've read authors who have done several black moments and you're like, okay, the never ending ending, and I don't like that. So
you just want one.
One is good if it's really good.
Katherine Grant: Yeah. All right. Love it or leave it? Always end with an epilogue.
Kathy Wheeler: It depends on the story.
You know, a lot of times, like Amanda quick, she will have. Just label it a chapter and it just kind of depends on the story, I think.
Katherine Grant: All right. Love it or leave it? Always share your research in the author's note.
Kathy Wheeler: I read a lot of that. I don't necessarily do it myself. But yeah, sometimes I will find where did they get this information and then we'll read their notes.
Katherine Grant: And are there other rules I didn't ask about that you break?
Kathy Wheeler: I can't really think of any. I'm sure I break plenty.
Katherine Grant: Fair enough. Well, Kathy, thank you so much for coming on the podcast. Where can listeners find you in your books?
Kathy Wheeler: At Kathy L Wheeler.com.
Katherine Grant: Perfect. I'm gonna put that link in show notes so listeners can click right through.
Kathy Wheeler: That sounds perfect. Thank you so much.
Katherine Grant: Thank you, Kathy. I really appreciate it.
That's it for this week! Don't forget to subscribe to the Historical Romance Sampler wherever you listen, and follow us on Instagram, TikTok, and YouTube. Until next week, happy reading!